Posted by u/caufield88uk on Reddit Scotland, today:
I don’t know if anyone else has noticed this with the GERS data and specifically the graphs available.
There are two, showing Scotland’s cumulative fiscal deficit and the other is the year on year fiscal deficit.
The sdata on the year on year graph shows that Scotland was a massive net contributor to the UK budget up until 1992, then we become a net extractor, this continues until 1997 and then gets slightly worse after 1997 until 2012 and then from 2012 to 2015 gets massively worse and since 2015 has got much much worse and the last 2 years on record show it growing even more.
I find it surprising that the dates on these changes fit nicely in with, 1992 – GERS introduced by John Major to turn people against devolution, 1997 – Devolution happens 2012 – Indyref talk starts and s30 order given. 2015 – Scotland now resigned to stay in the union. 2020 – Indyref2 talk starts up.
So Scotland is a net contributor then John Major makes the GERS and somehow scotlands finances are manipulated to turn people against devolution, then devolution happens so they manipulate the data more cause they can now blame scotgov for it, then the fiscal deficit gets massive as we start talking indy so they can sit and say oh but Scotland can’t be indy, look at your deficit, and now that same stuff is happening YET again now in the lead up to indyref2.
Also the cummulative one shows that Scotland only became a cumulative burden on the UK from 2019 (But data doesn’t go all the way back beyond 1980, which might even show Scotland was an even bigger net contributor)
Just thought this was an interesting take when I looked at the data. I believe GERS is manipulated and designed to turn people away from talk of indy and to give the UK gov their own data to say look you cant be indy, but they fucked up cause the data and the dates line up just TOOOOO well for it to not be manipulated.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Scotland/comments/w86neb/something_i_just_realised_about_gers/
Responses at the above link.
Talking-up Scotland 
A pity that Scotland can’t get its own data. The USA leads the way here in developing cancer treatments and drugs using the Defence budget. Could Scotland not use its SNHS budget to develop a Scottish ONS equivalent, reasoning that SNHS is so vital to Scotland that Scotland really needs to know exactly what is going on in its economy?
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The Barnett Formula designed to take Scotland revenues and resources to fund London S/E. Scotland did not see any of the massive Oil revenues and resources. Whisky and other revenues disappeared down South.
Monies illegally spent on behalf of Scotland. Tilbury Docks and Canary Wharf. London tax evading bankers who fund the Tory Party. Financial fraud, illegal wars. Scottish funds mismanaged and misused. Kept secret under the Official Secrets Act and ‘D’ notices.
The so called deficit run up by Westminster on behalf of Scotland in the South and elsewhere. No taxation without representation. Scotland outvoted 10 to 1 in Westminster. Not Democratic and unfair. Under the terms of the Union settlement 1707 Scotland was supposed to be treated equally, it was not. Iraq, Dunblane and Lockerbie kept secret for 100 years. Westminster unionist corruption. Not open Government.
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If memory serves, I think that GERS was requested by the then Secretary of State for Scotland, Mr Ian Laing, to be presented in a way which showed that Scotland was being subsidised by the rest of the UK. The phrase “subsidy junkies” had been heaped on Scotland since the 1979 referendum. There was either no evidence provided or only selectively skewed evidence provided for this jibe – and jibe it was. It was usually preceded by “whingeing Jock”.
I recall a programme from around that period produced by STV which sought to examine the extent of the distribution of funds to Scotland and it included data for other parts of the UK. In one section, there was a long interview with a woman who was a spokesperson for the City of London and she was contemptuously and bombastically dismissive of the subsidy junkies. However, the interviewer had done his homework and quoted the far larger amounts being given to the Docklands redevelopment in the Isle of Dogs, such as Canary Wharf, and on the south side of the Thames. This included infrastructure such as the Docklands Light Railway. The spokesperson immediately justified such subsidy because ‘Docklands is important’. When asked why she said that the investment returns will trickle down and benefit the unproductive pats of the country.
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It has been a fiddle from the beginning to put us wanting Holyrood now Independence. The graphs do indeed prove manipulation. The Financial Times in Feb 14 confirmed that Scotland had and is a net contributor to the U.K. treasury.
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Where do the figures for the GERS calculations come from? Most of them must come from WM, the same WM that has the means motive and opportunity to distort the numbers.
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GERS is a scam, Scotland is being scammed and over the years especially since the oil started to be stolen, but also prior to that, it ammounts to trillions of pounds, bloody tragic for Scotland.
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Scotland can’t borrow any money so how can there be a deficit. If Scotland is such a basket case economically, draining UK coffers, taking English tax payers hard earned cash as a freebie, why is the English government so determined that Scotland should not be independent, hmm.
Oh I just cottoned on, it’s because they ‘love’ Scotland, aww.
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Make no mistake about this
GERS is delibarilty set up
Not only to deceive but also confuse so much so that a good few of the most smart of Accountants and Economic Academics specialising in Government
Finances and in main I quote one of the best in this field
“Having drilled as deep as possible into the GERS data I must admit failure to
Report as requested but state the following
I have no doubt whatsoever that whoever actually set GERS up deliberately did so in full knowledge of what their actual Brief was, as much vital data is either missing
And such is impossible to find from Westminster Accounts in key areas of actual Tax receipt and spend data e.g.Import duties, corporation tax as considerable revenues produced entirely in Scotland such as whisky is
Attributed to England as the Distillery owners registered in London
Further more tax receipts such as VAT are a pure guess
Given all this the only conclusion one can reach is That GERS are most certainly not fit for purpose ( other than the nefarious ones of those who set GERS up ) and no government on earth could successfully run their fiscal affairs in a manner that would work,especially in the area of long term policies and development
The format of GERS is so bad that if you conducted your business, or family and personal affaiun this way you would very soon find yourself in very serious trouble
However having doodled and with creative accounting of the correct nature with due caution and diligence I have no doubts that in reality Scotland at the very least has a small deficit but probably operating most years with a surplus many of those years with a very healthy surplus
And as how to decipher GERS i am at a complete loss
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Professor Richard Murphy has looked into GERS thoroughly and I remember him calling the figures CRAP, I forget what the initials stood for but the acronym is very fitting, in my view.
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Think it was Completely Random Approximations, Robert.
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Thanks John.
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Every pro-independence politician, website and blog should be insisting the the Treasury opens its books for scrutiny.
It could be an agreed panel of international economists, but there should be scrutiny before indyref2.
When we vote YES, there will HAVE to be open books for debt and asset distribution, so why not beforehand?
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I remember years ago one analyst extrapolating the data and concluding that the trick being pulled was assigning a disproportionate amount of UK debt to the colonies. He had a circular chart showing a kind of ‘then and now’ comparison. We are being governed by gaslight and it needs to be called out.
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John Porteous
Me thinks a more appropriate nomenclature
For GERS would be
Complete and Utter Coital
Bovine Scatology
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or Bullshit for short!
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John
Yes but i do like to be honest but polite when
Shining a light on those who plan to deceive and spin a complex web
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Expenditure_and_Revenue_Scotland#:~:text=GERS%20was%20first%20published%20in,resisting%20calls%20for%20Scottish%20devolution.
Something like the Mcrone Report.
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Delay in publishing this as WordPress makes me formally accept anything with even a few urls.
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Scotland raises £66Billion. Gets back £41Billion block grant. £15Billion on (UK) pensions and benefits. £10Billion is spent by Westminster on anything but billed to Scotland. Trident, redundant weaponry, tax evasion, financial fraud, Westminster corruption. HS2: Hinkley Point etc.
Scotland 25% surplus in fuel and energy. Scotland pays more for fuel and energy but is in surplus and nearer the source. VAT raised in Scotland underestimated. Westminster Treasury claims that separate accounts cannot be raised. A click on a computer. On average £600Billlion+ in taxes and revenues is raised in UK. UK Gov accounts. Scottish Gov accounts on the internet.
Scotland loses £1Billion in Trident and redundant weaponry. Army/navy not stationed in Scotland. Loses £3Billion on tax evasion. Scotland cannot borrow for economy growth. It would pay for itself. £6Billion. Brexit will cost Scotland £3Billion+ in lost revenues. Total £13Billion+. The so called deficit.
Illegal wars, tax evasion and Westminster financial fraud costs Scotland dear. The Royal illegal interference. The Royals head of the Masonics. The secret bigoted, racist, misogynist organisation. Unequal and unfair. Blackball people. Westminster secrets kept under the Official Secrets Act and ‘D’ notices. Not democratic or fair. No taxation without representation. Scotland is outvoted 10 to 1.
Scotland could be like Norway and raise £80Billion a year. Without Westminster poor, bad decisions and colossal interference holding Scotland back. The corruption and chaos of Westminster. London the tax evading capital of the world. The UK the most unequal place in the world. Independence is the answer to help and change the world.
Scotland the land of discovery and invention shaped the modern world. The commitment to education. Inventions and communications led on to the internet. The Declaration at Arbroath. One person one vote. The Enlightenment. The migration. A 40 million diaspora around the world. The US, Australia, Canada, NZ. Scotland has friends worldwide. The UN commitment to self determination and self governance if people vote for it.
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