With only 3 days left, support Talking-up Scotland's work to counter the lies and get you the facts, daily, at: Crowdfunder at: https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/help-talking-up-scotland-keep-going Or by direct bank transfer to: JOHN WATSON ROBERTSON Sort Code – 08-91-04 Account – 12266421
By Liz S
The BBC has an article today on their N Ireland page:
“Who are the Orangemen”?
Then incredulously it stated ” If you’re not from Northern Ireland, you may be wondering what on earth the ‘marching season’ is all about“.
Sorry ?
OMG , well I am from Scotland and I and others who live here know only too well what the “marching season is all about” !
Why would that be ?
Because they, Orangemen, do it in Scotland as well.
Then the piece continues in stating “Who are these men in bowler hats and orange sashes”?
Sorry , but is this actually someone from NI who has written this piece or is it an intern straight out of an English university who thinks that they need to explain this to others within the UK.
It continues with “Most Orange Order parades pass off peacefully but the rest of the world has often only seen images of those that don’t”.
What ?
“peacefully” ?
Or is it that other people are made to feel intimidated when marches are in their areas , so really if the world has “often only seen images of those (Marches) that don’t pass off peacefully” is that because someone dared to try to cross a road during a march or because they were a Catholic priest.
A couple of examples :
2019 – “A man taking part in an orange walk in Glasgow has admitted spitting on a woman as she crossed the procession“
2019 based on incident in 2018 – “The Catholic Church has called for a planned Orange Order parade to be re-routed as it would pass the spot where a priest was spat on last year“.
This BBC ‘puff piece’ then goes onto explain “So who is marching and why do some people sometimes object to parades? (to whom are they, the BBC, explaining this to, Martians from another planet?)
“why do some people object” ?
Duh.
This BBC article then also proceeds to add some PR for the Orange Lodge in stating:
“The Orange Order itself has also attempted to move with the times, rebranding the 12 July celebrations ‘Orangefest’ in a public relations charm offensive that presents the day as a fun and inclusive dash of local colour. There was even, briefly, a superhero mascot called Diamond Dan”.
OMG who wrote this article ?
It continues in stating that ” It’s a canny decision, with membership of fraternal societies generally in sharp decline. The Orange Order’s secrecy, ceremonies and archaic titles – all distantly derived from Freemasonry – smack of a bygone age. While staunchly loyal to its traditions, the Orange Order also understands it must reach out to a new generation“
Also known as radicalisation.
This next part of the article was also pretty bad in that it stated:
“A few bands still tout the provocative emblems of loyalist paramilitary groups”
“provocative” ?
Should that not be “shocking” or a BBC favourite term “controversial” or perhaps in reality a better word would be “inciteful” .
Then in a contradiction they , the BBC, states that:
“Perhaps because of this, Orangefest is at pains to be inclusive, making much of lodges from as far afield as Togo, Canada and Ghana” .
So that contradicts their initial statement in this piece that stated ” ” If you’re not from Northern Ireland, you may be wondering what on earth the ‘marching season’ is all about“.
The article then explains how “Union flags are also highly visible, particularly among the spectators. The union with the rest of the United Kingdom is a cornerstone of the Orange Order – a major bone of contention between the marchers and the nationalists who would like to see a united Ireland”.
What Union is that then ?
Aye indeed , as there is the reality of one of the reasons for these marches.
As with these sectarian pro Union displays aka marches, that is for them, as British Nationalists, a way to promote the major bone of contention they have in them fiercely opposing any suggestion of Irish reunification.
Another being a alleged hatred of Catholics, I say alleged as those senior members within their hierarchy (of the Orange Order) deny this as being factual.
The BBC piece concludes wit:
“But even with the rebranding, the PR push and the undeniable spectacle, the question remains: can the celebration of such a deeply contentious date, organised by a group that actively champions one community to the exclusion of another, ever be anything other than divisive? Put more simply, is the future bright for the Orangemen“?
So who do they, The BBC , ask ?
Well they ask a ” 42-year-old Orangeman” who responds that:
“For a tourist, the cultural, historical and religious aspects of the parade are what they should see” and then he states “We have been trying to get young people to learn and have respect for their own culture and other peoples”.
Really ?
So then is this not simply even more PR from a member of the Orange Lodge ?
Then the BBC state that “Dr Eric Kaufmann, an expert on the Orange Order, says the Order’s future probably depends on the direction Northern Ireland itself takes”
He continues in stating that:
“Their ideology is important. Can they work in a post-peace process Northern Ireland? Oddly enough I think it does work. If multiculturalism is accepting different cultures, then they slot right into that model … [but] they’re definitely not going to work well in an integrated rather than a multicultural Northern Ireland.”
That’s the same Dr Kaufman who identifies as a ‘liberal’ national Conservative (they are those who focus on a free-market capitalist economy, emphasise national sovereignty, strong borders, and prioritise the interests of one’s own country and also promote culture and value traditional social structures, law and order, and national heritage as anchors for society).
He was also someone who called “woke” ideas “a battle for the foundations of our civilisation”.
He, Kaufman, has also expressed support for Florida governor (Republican) Ron DeSantis arguing at the 2022 UK Tory Conference that the party should follow DeSantis’s lead ( arguing that fighting against cultural and identity issues , as in “woke ideas” , are central to modern politics and winning elections).
Perfect ‘expert’ for the BBC then was he not.
So what prompted this infantile piece by the BBC ?
Well ,there is a separate BBC article upon a very very controversial, unnecessary and “provocative” decision to allow an Orange march to again walk through a catholic area in NI (for the first time in 30 years).
This other BBC article describes this action as being:
“A controversial parade organised by Northern Ireland’s Orange Order is due to go down the mainly nationalist Garvaghy Road”.
Which has resulted in residents from that area (rightly) blocking their way.
Most fair minded people of course would wonder why they, the Orangemen, really want to walk through this Catholic area as surely , as an act that it is inciteful ,it then potentially is a recipe for disaster in generating real violence.
That’s the nub of this whole situation, it’s blatantly contentious as an act by them as the Orange Order.
Honestly it beggars belief that yet again these people are being pandered to , especially when one knows what their sole raison d’être for existing really is.
Which as a raison d’être is not just exclusively known to only those who live within NI.
Liz S
With only 3 days left, support Talking-up Scotland's work to counter the lies and get you the facts, daily, at: Crowdfunder at: https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/help-talking-up-scotland-keep-going Or by direct bank transfer to: JOHN WATSON ROBERTSON Sort Code – 08-91-04 Account – 12266421
Discover more from Talking-up Scotland
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
You ask the question why the Orange Order wants to march along Garvaghy Road.
The answer, as my ‘agnostic’ father explained to me about 70 years ago was because, they believe they live in a ‘Protestant country’ and that by marching through an area largely populated by Roman Catholics they are emphasizing their dominance.
In a land where symbolism is important, the ‘regalia’, the colours (‘they are fine’), the triumphalist music and, most of all, the beating on the large Lambeg drums are all to demonstrate to the Roman Catholics (‘Papes’, ‘taigs’, fenians’) which group of people are in charge. The drumming symbolises the beating down of those considered inferior and the threat that they will be beaten down again and again should they try to resist their suppression.
The Protestants are in the north of Ireland because of the Ulster Plantations of the years around 1600, when they were brought over from England (mainly army veterans) and Scotland (mainly small farmers) to displace the local Roman Catholic population from the lands. The purpose was to suppress the repeated resistance to occupation by the native peoples since Norman times. These settlers were protected by garrison towns, such as (London)Derry. These settlers addition of ‘London’ to the front of the local name ‘Derry’ being, again, symbolic, of domination.
The resurgence in the demand to march down Garvaghy Road is sign that the Orange Order, having seen the growth of the Irish Republic and its economic success, their own loss of power in Stormont, the changing demograhics, the continued membership of the European common market area, the dual UK/Irish citizenship and, most of all the Good Friday Agreement, as signs of their loss of power and a determination to try desperately to regain it. The unleashing of murderous mobs against ‘immigrants’ was an example of this.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@ Anonymous @ 10.33am
Now that, as a written piece, by you is what the BBC should have written .
Absolutely brilliant comment that explains so so much better this whole situation than my instinctively reactive comment did.
Thanks for writing such an eloquent, lucid and informative comment.
🙂
Liz S
LikeLike
Chris Bryant the ‘Unionist’ UK Labour NI Secretary said today on SKY News, in relation to the residents of this Catholic area and of Sinn Fein supporting them :
“I don’t think any elected politician should be supporting an illegal protest”
So then is it fair to say , whose side he , Bryant, is on.
I mean imagine why Catholic residents within this area are not wanting protestant agitators to march down their street, then the ‘Unionist’ UK SOS for NI calls the (justified) protest of these residents “illegal” .
Is that “illegal” in the sense of another Judge , via an appeal, overturning a former judgement that prohibited this march from going into that Catholic area or what ?
Someone on social media responded to this comment by Bryant in them writing “What part of forcing a sectarian march onto a community , which doesn’t want it , does he not get”.
Does he, Bryant, see it as wrong, interfering and inappropriate for “The Democratic Unionist Party ( DUP) MP for Upper Bann, Carla Lockhart, calling on the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) to “do their job” and police the determination of the Parades Commission” ?
The Social Democratic and Labour Party (SDLP) leader Claire Hanna said that “Whatever the legalities, it was never politically right or morally right to do this” and so she said that “the march is a “violation of this community who just want to live in peace” and argues “that it is how it is being viewed far beyond this road”.
Then unlike Chris Bryant, she as the Social Democratic and Labour Party (SDLP) leader , sought to resolve this situation in stating she called upon the “the chief constable and secretary of state to intervene, saying she had reminded both (that) they have the “ability to revoke any permission for this parade”.
The main role of the various UK SOS for Scotland, Wales & NI is one that exists only to defend and support the supposed integrity of the UK State and it’s UK government (and also it seems side with those members of the public (and organisations) who also support and defend both the UK and the UK government as part of the British establishment).
Liz S
LikeLiked by 2 people
Now that NI, Wales and Scotland are talking together about escaping thye BritNat English regime, this sort of thing will get worse. It’s all very convenient to sow more division, and spread hate, for the BritNats.
LikeLike
Indeed ArtyHetty
The useless out of his depth Chris Bryant SOS against NI (well part if it that is – as in the ones who want Irish reunification).
As he has “called for both sides to “double down on compromise“
“both side” to “compromise” ?
Tell you what Chris , here’s another suggestion , how about someone arranges for a bloody Orange march to walk down your home street , then see how you and your neighbours like that.
Trust me , Bryant is not offering a diplomatic solution to this scandalous situation , as instead he is doing what Labour always do, and that is taking a side.
(In this instance it seems he sides with these Protestant aggressors and agitators, aka the Orangemen )
As he seems to be making out that the innocents in all of this (as in these Catholic residents of this street ) are somehow to be seen as being also culpable and so then as unyielding as the real perpetrators of this scandalous and totally unnecessary situation.
(Labour has done the same with Gaza, actually they have done far far worse as with Gaza they have been apologists for the murderous actions of the IDF and the Israeli government).
As we all know whose side Labour is on in respect to the genocide happening in Gaza. ( a genocide that they will not admit is happening).
Labour are morally corrupt. (as are those they choose to appease, defend and so then always support).
Liz S
LikeLiked by 2 people
Gave my somewhat mixed family background here (9:02pm comment): https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2026/09/26/what-next-falkirk-fan-and-academic-cites-rangers-downfall-in-debate-over-man-city-charges-punishment-after-club-found-guilty-of-all-but-one/. My late wife reflected back on her childhood in the 1950s and 60s and did remember the Orange marches “as a fun and inclusive dash of local colour” and much more – a community coming together and a great day out. She wasn’t aware, at that time, of any underlying hatred. But we learned from each other. We both had ancestral NI connections. She also had a few loved ones in the British Army during ‘the troubles’ (who emerged unscathed). I had hand-me-down family tales of grand-parental era relatives being burned out of their farm with loss of life. Or one of the few RC workers on the Titanic being warned by decent colleagues from ‘the other side’ when it might be best not to return to H&W. She was astonished when I told her of Luther’s removal of seven books, the Apocrypha, from the Bible, essentially because they formed the basis for certain Roman Catholic beliefs though the excuse was that they were Greek texts rather than Hebrew or Aramaic (ancient Apocrypha texts in these languages are now known). She paralleled latter day corruption in the Catholic Church, not least sexual misconduct and child sexual abuse with the even larger scale corruption that catalysed the Reformation. My Catholic relatives (kind of) agreed and together with political disaffection toward the Labour Party (which had first given RC workers any hint of equality) and a forgiveness for the perceived bigotry of the Scottish Party (1932-34), which merged with the National Party of Scotland to form the SNP, I could hear them ardently discussing change. The 2007 and 2011 election results came as no surprise and both Labour and SNP then pursued the Muslim vote, before losing some religious adherents because of gender politics. The Westminster Succession to the Crown Act 2013 (see above reference) came as a huge slap in the face to both practising Roman Catholics and apostates and even to the children of apostates (don’t think they didn’t notice!). The reaffirmation of the Orange Order in Scotland, even in the most unlikely towns and especially at this moment in Drumcree in NI may be intended to reopen old divides. Ultimately Northern Ireland will leave the UK with most of its population, including the non-nationalist business class welcoming Irish reunification and the EU. Many of the remainder will turn to Scotland and old or previously receding bigotries will be renewed together with an altered independence voting balance. Add in centralised public services, dystopian IT systems both hardware (especially BESS and hyperscale datacentres) and software from the usual multinational (largely US) companies. Plus the need for the US to control ‘three land’ Greenland, Iceland and Scotland and therefore control the incredibly badly named GIUK gap between the Norwegian Sea and the Atlantic Ocean. Can anyone see a plan emerging?
LikeLike
The Masonics. Secret society. Bigots, racist, misogynist. Unequal and unfair. They blackball people. Should be banned. Royals at the head. Privy Council. Protestant monarchy.
Settlement of union. Same Protestant Monarch. Separate Church. Church of Scotland. Church of England. Separate education system. Church led education system. A tithe local tax paid for Church education. 10%.
Ireland the Catholics were discriminated against. No allowed to vote in the 1960s Bernadette Devlin. The majority in Ireland were Catholics. The Planted English landowners held the power. Vast estates. The Catholics were not allowed to own land, have a horse (travel), carry a sword. etc. Totally discriminated against. (Same Scotland) After Jacobite Rebellion. Westminster Gov policy.
Ireland wanted Home Rule/Independence from Westminster rule. The majority were Catholics. There was a mass Home Rule movement. Total majority. Lead by Protestant landowners. Charles Stuart Parnell. The landowners held the power. Catholics were not allowed to own land. Constant confrontation with the Army planted in Ireland by Westminster.
A mass Home Rule, land ownership Movement. A Home Rule Bill was to pass through Westminster. A fortnight after the start of WW1. Delayed. 1916 Easter Uprising. 1922 Illegal Partition of Ireland, Catholics could not vote. 1928 Universal Suffrage. If the Republicans had waited 5 years. Ireland would not have been illegally Partitioned. The majority would have voted against it. Ireland would have achieved Home Rule/Independence. Now they can vote for it.
LikeLike
It’s Glasgow the central belt where bigotry exists in Scotland. In other parts of Scotland it does not exist. Masonic marches are banned. There are few separate schools. The Masonics are dying out.
Scotland is secular. 32% declare as Protestant. 16% as Catholic. 2%% Muslim. The Churches has privileges about the Law. The employments and equal opportunity Laws. Catholic schools can have Catholic teachers. Christians can refuse to work on Sunday etc.
In NI the masons got all the public houses, the public jobs etc. The hand shake and the winks. NI was supported by £Billions during the Troubles. Extra £Billions. The Irish Republic economy did much better.
LikeLike
BBC website updated piece on NI Orange Order situation:
“Police block Orange Order from controversial parade route”
Included in this piece is this:
“How did we get here”?
“The Orange Order, the most prominent of the loyal orders associated with Protestants in Northern Ireland, holds thousands of parades every year and the vast majority pass off without incident“
“However, many Catholics see the marches as sectarian and object to them passing through, or close to, Catholic or nationalist areas”.
Really ?
How did we get here ?
Well this sectarian organisation, the Orange Order, wanted to march through an area that has Catholics living in it, when there was absolutely no need to do so, pure badness at play here from these Neanderthals whose main regressive nonsensical purpose is to uphold the Protestant faith and also to ensure NI remains British (as in a colony controlled and owned by a English based UK government).
So BBC it is not just the “many Catholics (who) see the marches as sectarian” as all people with a working brain should also do so as well, even an corporation like the BBC should also know that too.
The BBC still batting for anyone but the victims of hate.
Has anyone mentioned yet that Labour in Scotland , under Sarwar, welcomed members of the Orange Lodge into the party as Labour candidates for Councils in Scotland.
One was a former Grand Master of the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland and world leader (Imperial President) of the Orange Order and he was elected in May 2022 as a Labour Councillor for North Lanarkshire Council.
Another, elected to the same council, served as an executive officer and junior depute grand master for the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland.
Both of them told The Herald that “stated that their personal beliefs and lodge memberships do not interfere with their public duties”.
Oh but yesterday the BBC website in an article wrote that “If you’re not from Northern Ireland, you may be wondering what on earth the ‘marching season’ is all about“.
Sorry but how many Orange Walks aka “marches” have been allowed in Scotland this year during the “marching season” ?
The BBC news teams and their version of the news is , as news, an insult to our, the public’s, intelligence
Liz S
LikeLiked by 1 person