I gave the Greens my 2nd vote but….

https://greens.scot/news/lorna-slater-calls-for-cooperation-by-diverse-parliament

I’ve been very impressed by Lorna Slater. The combination of my confidence in the local constituency SNP candidate to take the seat (phew!), the transphobes joining Alba and Slater’s performances on TV, pushed me into voting for them on the regional vote.

I’ve done this before but some of their antics, especially running with the pack on the repeal of the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act (that’s worked out well?) have caused me to doubt them.

Now we have the co-leader writing:

Scottish Greens co-leader Lorna Slater has called for the re-elected First Minister Nicola Sturgeon to work across the diverse parliament to tackle the urgent crises of the pandemic recovery and the climate emergency. Responding to the election of the First Minister, Lorna Slater hailed “Scotland’s most diverse Parliament”, with more women, disabled and young people.

But she didn’t vote for her. She abstained. Was she unsure of how to choose between Douglas Ross, Willie Rennie and Nicola Sturgeon?

Disappointing. Very.

38 thoughts on “I gave the Greens my 2nd vote but….”

  1. ANDCWE THOUGHT ALBA WERE SNAKES IN THE GRASS
    NOW THE MASK IS OF GREENS DEPUTY
    SHE DID NOT VOTE FOR THE BEST LEADER SCOTLAND HAS EVER HAD

    HOPE SHE DOES NOT CONTINUE THIS VOTING PATTERN
    IT WILL NOT BODE WELL FOR GREEN FUTURE
    VOTES IN SCOTLAND

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    1. I do not know why she voted the way she did, neither do you.

      I guess that the Greens hoped for an indy coalition with the SNP which is not happening hence this wee protest.

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  2. This Lady is one Smart cookie
    And the Greens down South would be well advised to take more than a few leaf,s out of her play book,and drive a horse and cart straight through the collapsing English traditional Labour voters
    They are screaming out for a progressive
    Visionary to burst the arrogant pompous
    Victorious Tories

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    1. I’m not seeing any issues either. Even if Labour had voted with the Tories & the LibDems, a Greens abstention guaranteed the SNP a victory over the FM’s re-election.

      The same can be said for any vote throughout this parliament; any Greens abstention will allow proposed SNP legislation to pass. As long as they are firmly behind Indy proposals, I won’t be overly concerned.

      I gave the Greens my list vote (Lothians), because I specifically wanted Lorna Slater in parliament. The last time (and first) I voted “Greens” was in 1982, local elections, no SNP candidate; they were still called the Ecology party!

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  3. The FM received 64 votes . . . . There are 64 SNP MSP’s . . . . Did any of the Greens vote for Nicola Sturgeon?

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    2. No, the only other votes were: Willie Rennie 4, all his own MSPs, Dross 31, all Tory ones, rest abstained. So Greens and Labour the new Abstainers

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  4. I think it is usual, unless there is an agreed coalition, as there was for the first two Parliaments between Labour and the LibDems, that the non-Government parties abstain rather than vote for or against.

    What did surprise me was that 29 members voted AGAINST Ms Alison Johnstone becoming Presiding Officer. especially since the Presiding Officer has to be neutral. And, to be fair to all the previous presiding officers, who have been drawn from all five parties represented, that they have undertaken their duties with scrupulous impartiality.

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    1. “What did surprise me was that 29 members voted AGAINST Ms Alison Johnstone ..”

      I agree that was hard to understand, unnecessarily divisive and arguably showing disrespect to the individual. Especially strange since she was the only candidate. So who did those who voted against want: why did they not put up a candidate to their liking?

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  5. I agree with most of what I read on this site but the casual reference Alba party members (I am one) as transphobes is sloppy and inaccurate.

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    1. “phobos-fear-always hated the increasing tendency to slap it on to various minority groups, where often dislike is more appropriate- trans lobbying is wildly disproportionate to numbers involved.

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      1. Dear iki your post is a logical puzzle! Firstly you tell us you are NOT a member of Alba. OK.

        But then you claim to ‘discover’ you’re a ‘transphobe’ – how, why?

        Presumably you are attributing your personal discovery to something written by the author of today’s blog namely ‘the transphobes joining Alba’. But did you not tell us that you’re NOT a member of Alba!

        This is where it get’s confusing. NOT being a member of Alba means you have NOT been someone joining Alba! And since you haven’t joined Alba, whatever you think about the quote taken from the blog, it simply could NOT be referring to YOU because it’s only about some people who joined Alba. But then you didn’t join ……!!!!

        I hope that helps – maybe a false discovery?

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  6. Disappointed with your lazy “ transphobes” slur worthy of the BritNat redtops Prof.

    People have valid concerns about protections of women’s sex based rights under the Equalities Act being damaged by the GRA proposals which are being influenced by lobbyists and hidden from public scrutiny.

    “Phobic”is a throw away insult used in the same way as fascist or antisemite is when trying to shut down debate around a subject the accuser has no logical response to evidence based argument or more often they don’t want to engage in discussing a difficult topic.

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  7. The Greens opposed the AWPR, the Queensferry Crossing, the Oil & Gas industry, sporting developments. The Tram chaos. Wasting £Billions. Alba was a better choice.

    Alex Salmond one of the best statesmen Scotland has ever had. He was wrongly accused. It was SNP women who defended him. A minority of transphobes. exist. Mainly older people who do not sympathise or understand. 1million 2nd votes lost to let 3rd unionist losers in.

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  8. What are peoples’ thoughts on the SNP rejecting a coalition with the Greens? Maybe that is the crux of the matter here. Would that have been a good or bad idea?

    What we really do not need right now is infighting among pro independence parties, that would be a gift to the BritNats.

    I have to agree with James Kelly at SGPop today. It’s now (asap after Covid) or never. Last chance saloon.

    Ps, Do watch Scotland at 7, well worth an hour or so of your time, you can watch the previous broadcasts anytime.
    https://www.broadcastingscotland.scot/

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  9. TBH, I’m not particularly bothered if telling the truth gets be banned from here, as I can’t see me saving Scotland from slipping into a state of totalitarianism. If you support the Greens, despite all the warnings, then you can’t support women’s equality with men, or the World Health Organization. So you might as well have voted SNP, which is no longer a democratic party, as it has been turned into a private club for parochially minded authoritarians.

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  10. I’m sad to see that you feel Alba members are all transphobes John. That comment is very unbecoming. I thought you had done reasonably well keeping yourself out of that debate up til this point. I’ve been reading your blog for many years now and now I won’t. It saddens me that you think those who support womens rights are transphobes. Time will tell and I foresee your beloved greens hold the SNP to ransom yet again and Independence is off the agenda for the next 5 + years. I was an SNP member up til January and left the party along with my wife as womens rights came under threat from trans rights. If that makes us transphobes in your eyes then your a fool. You can’t take rights from one protected group to give to another its just wrong. Either everyone has the same rights or none of us do. Trans people already have exactly the same rights as everyone else in society (Apart from Tories). I’m disabled and I get access to a toilet for my use, can it not be the same for trans people? Or should all womens toilets be turned in to uni-sex ones? You really need to think this policy through to the end. Thanks for your good work in the past. I hope you and your ilk have enjoyed destroying the independence movement from within.

    Scott Shaw

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    1. For goodness sake Mr Shaw, give readers of today’s blog a little credit for English comprehension! I am not engaging in the debate over gender recognition here: I wish here only to point out some basics of textual analysis.

      Today’s blog post states: “.. the transphobes joining Alba”

      Mr Shaw you state: “I’m sad to see that you feel Alba members are ALL transphobes John”. (my emphasis)

      It must surely be blindingly obvious to any reasonable person that you have (deliberately or accidentally?) misrepresented the former statement which does not lay a charge against ‘ALL’ Alba members.

      I could address other aspects of what you have written but let’s see if we can acknowledge this basic misrepresentation. It should not be contentious!

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      1. So what then was the point of your remark about transphobes joining Alba? The implication is surely that the party and its members are tainted somehow. And if you want to stand by your assertion when challenged that some clearly did, you might perhaps show us your working, evidence of who transphobic joined Alba. Unless of course you believe that being gender critical is automatically transphobic, in which case dialogue is impossible.

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  11. Put more simply, if you’re prepared to deny humanity’s evolved as part of nature, then I’m not sure if you should really be let out on your own. Let alone vote. Which lead me to the question, why do you think you are supporting Scottish democracy by voting Greens or SNP, as neither party supports gender equality?

    Public reason and multi-layered justice
    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/20414005.2017.1299537

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  12. I campaigned for Alba on the list because replacing some unionists with an indy msps and rebalancing parliament with an equal number of indy supporting parties is a good idea. That strategy, however well-intentioned does not of course take voter psychology into account, but nethertheless I considered it worth a goal worth pursuing in the full realisation it might not succeed. What is beyond me though is why the leader of a party pursuing the same objective would put the boot in to demonise Alba and their supporters. It was done very effectively, and set one group of indy supporters against another. You have to wonder why. Prof, you must back up your assertions with evidence in your usual scientific manner. Alba’s policy on equalities, and candidate statements on the issues are freely available. Please research the subject properly before making widely-parroted unevidenced assertions.

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        1. Well the moral of that particular incident is dont sign up to something that doesnt say what it meant. So what does “Eliminate all laws and policies ……… including laws limiting legal capacity of adolescents” mean?

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      2. Apologies for the length of this contribution.

        Anne Martin writes: ‘So what does “Eliminate all laws and policies ……… including laws limiting legal capacity of adolescents” mean?’

        It seems certain she is quoting from Section 14.a of the ‘Feminist Declaration’ published by the International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association (ILGA). ILGA is worldwide federation of more than 1,600 organisations from over 150 countries and territories campaigning for lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans and intersex human rights.

        Getting back to Ms Martin’s quote, as I will show, it is highly (indeed ridiculously!) selective. Is this being done knowingly or unknowingly by Ms Martin to misrepresent? I hope it’s the latter. Has she read the source document or been misled by partial information received from a third party with an agenda?

        What follows is the actual, full section from which Ms Martin quotes. You will note that rather a lot of (important) text had been omitted! (It is beyond the scope of this contribution to give fuller and relevant details of the Declaration.)

        “a. Eliminate all laws and policies that punish or criminalize same-sex intimacy, gender affirmation, abortion, HIV transmission non-disclosure and exposure, or that limit the exercise of bodily autonomy, including laws limiting legal capacity of adolescents, people with disabilities or other groups to provide consent to sex or sexual and reproductive health services or laws authorizing non-consensual abortion, sterilization, or contraceptive use;”

        On 12 April this year ILGA gave this statement: “ILGA World is appalled that false stories are circulating attempting to imply that ILGA World is advocating to lower or eliminate the age of consent. 

        “ILGA World categorically, and in no uncertain terms, does not advocate to eliminate or lower the general age of consent, nor supports paedophilia in any way, shape or form – and never has. Our position on this is clear and a matter of public record. These spurious claims, as old as homophobia itself, are dangerous and irresponsible, and we urge those making or sharing them, to stop.

        “ILGA World calls for the strengthening of the rights of children and young people, in accordance with the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, and condemns all forms of abuse (including sexual abuse), coercion, and exploitation of children and young people.

        “As regards our member organisations, we take strict measures to ensure that they abide by our values, and they are thoroughly screened during the application process. Any complaints or information received about members advocating or promoting paedophilia, are dealt with, and if founded will result in their expulsion from ILGA World.”

        To get another – and if true, worrying – take on all this see: ‘The Trajectory of an anti-LGBT Conspiracy Theory’ by Mallory Moore
        Apr 11, 2021 (https://transsafety.network/posts/alba-whrc-conspiracy/ )

        Whatever one’s view on the complex of issues involved, I hope users of this site can agree on the merits of avoiding the use of selective quotes when these remove context, hide perspective and, candidly, misrepresent. Otherwise trust leaks away!

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        1. Selective quotes: “what light from yonder window breaks?” springs to mind. My health board used to include “daily exposure to verbal and physical violence and aggression” in their front line job descriptions until someone pointed out the possible ramifications of such a requirement. Did they put the person who pointed it up in front of a firing squad and publish reams of caveats stating thats not what they meant? Errr, no. They quietly removed it.

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  13. All parties have their deviants. Including the SNP. They do go eventually. The list is endless. The was no MSM reporting of Alba just negativity. Anything they believe is negative they report. Anything positive about the SNP and the Independence movement they block out. Propaganda. To let 3rd unionist losers in. Waste million of Independence votes. The corruption of Westminster. The Greens will just muck about. Waste more taxpayers monies. Using unionists false statistics and miscalculations.

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    1. Really? Voting SNP 1 and 2 elected dozens of unionist list MSPs as predicted by the Alba party and others.

      If anyone has been conned, it’s those who took the SNP’s leadership advice, and voted SNP 1 and 2.

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