One rule for Ireland, only sneering contempt for Scotland

The Good Friday Agreement allows for a referendum on Irish reunification, within 7 years of the previous event, if there has been a consistent majority in opinion polls and a nationalist majority in the Northern Ireland Assembly or a vote by a majority in the Assembly. These conditions for a referendum have all been more than met in Scotland since the independence referendum of 2014, 7 years ago,

Today SNP MP Allan Dorans, asked the Prime Minister why, in the light of this, he would not agree to a Section 30 Order enabling the democratic will of the Scottish people to be measured and wondered if he was fearful of the outcome?

The answer all-too-predictably resorted to the ‘Scottish Nationalist Party’ jibe, the ‘once-in-a-generation’ myth, and the long-disproved notion that there was no desire for another referendum.

Johnson sneered at all of us like the overweight, Eton school bully, we know him to be. Hopefully the viewers saw through the superficial comedic ‘charm’ of the career psychopath.

30 thoughts on “One rule for Ireland, only sneering contempt for Scotland”

  1. The only thing worse that Bojo refusing an S30 request would be if he accepted an S30 request. There is a clear message for he SNP here – stop asking for one – its like asking the jailer if you can borrow the keys

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    1. bushgeoff , i agree , i wish these SNP MPs in westminster would stop this idiotic nonsense repeatedly asking BJ about a S30 its embarrassing they know the answer before they ask it.
      I think they reckon they are doing something useful for the money they get but they are not.
      The SNP MPs should be withdrawn from westminster

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      1. TC

        WGD explained at length the reasoning behind asking for the S30 order. It’s part of a process . . . A necessary part!
        Don’t fall for wings over nuthin propaganda.

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  2. Given Irelands (north and south) constitutional “right to self-determination” has been fixed as part of the architecture of the UK constitution, this would make an interesting case for the Supreme Court to rule on.
    I’m also pretty sure the Smith Commission stated that its recommendations did not rule out a future referendum on independence.
    As Smith was largely representative the UK, it then invalidates any references to “once in a generation”, a notion which does not exist in international or national law—not that Johnson recognises either.

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      1. Those were very much decided in English Law, perhaps Scots law would have been different, certainly the Care one wouldn’t be necessary as Scottish Government have already ameliorated the position, see earlier posts on this topic I think from Stewart, was it?

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      2. But this would be an judicial interpretation of law affecting the entirety of the UK.
        While there are differing legal jurisdictions within the UK, the constitution is an all-encompassing framework involving rights and responsibilities relating to the citizen V the State.
        It would be ludicrous for differing constitutional rights to be allocated “just because”.
        “Constitutions” don’t work that way.

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        1. Gavinochiltree
          With due respect i must correct you on Citizen V the State
          In the British state there are no Citizens
          Only Subjects and to HM the Queen and her
          Government

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  3. In.May Election by means of our votes
    Tap the Eton Buffoon on his weak not so broad shoulder and when he turns around
    Place your packed with Yes votes boxing gloves a killer punch upon his sneering jaws

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  4. This once in a generation fantasy is as problematic as the mythical gold standard of requiring a Section 30 Order from Westminster, which simply privileges British nationalism over international law. So nothing new for British constitutionalism, which supports institutional English Torydum rather than human rights and open democracy. Scotland is a co-founding nation of the British state, which does not have the moral, political, or legal authority to force economic and cultural harm on Scotland in order to sustain itself (see the Treaty of Union).

    https://www.academia.edu/35750847/THE_RIGHT_OF_SELF_DETERMINATION

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  5. Ireland’s “constitution” is guaranteed by the USA without whom the Brexiteers will not obtain their holy grail of a trade deal with America.
    Also,of course,NI has nothing coveted by Westminster so no great interest in hanging onto them.
    Scotland,however is another deal altogether since we have much that Westminster wants to keep.
    So,we will continue to hear things like “Now in not the time” etc as a means of delaying Scots having a say in the hope that it will all go away and they can continue to plunder (Tory speak for steal) our resources.

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  6. Glad to learn of Allan Dorans’ question in the Commons. The in principle statements in the Good Friday Agreement (GFA) are highly relevant now and should be promoted loudly and relentlessly by pro-indy politicians in every public debate with Unionists over a second indy ref. There is a simple principle here: the treatment by Westminster of UK citizens in NI and Scotland on our constitutional future must be the same.

    Many here will be familiar with the key sections of the GFA but they cannot be communicated too often:

    “1. The participants (i.e. in the GFA) endorse the commitment made by the British and Irish Governments that, in a new British-Irish Agreement replacing the Anglo- Irish Agreement, they will:

    (i) recognise the LEGITIMACY OF WHATEVER CHOICE is freely exercised by a majority of the people of Northern Ireland with regard to its status, whether they prefer to continue to support the Union with Great Britain or a sovereign united Ireland;” (my emphasis)

    And crucially on the matter of the timing of a border poll:

    “2. Subject to paragraph 3, the Secretary of State shall exercise the power under paragraph 1 if AT ANY TIME it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland.
    3. The Secretary of State shall not make an order under paragraph 1 earlier than SEVEN YEARS after the holding of a previous poll under this Schedule.”

    Click to access agreement.pdf

    This is not to argue that our only route to self-determination is to be a supplicant before Westminster. Rather the purpose is to get this GFA information in front of voters in Scotland who are not yet aware of it. The purpose is to reveal how differently from NI we in Scotland are being treated by Westminster in terms of the exercise of OUR legitimate democratic choice.

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  10. The difference between Ireland and Scotland is that the GFA was after a 30 year war, and one of the guarantors won its partial independence 100 years ago.
    It is a false equivalence.
    Having lived in Ireland for part of the Troubles I sincerely hope that Scotland never experiences the like.

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    1. WE have never resorted to violence in pursuit of Scottish Independence . Are we to understand , then , that UNLESS we follow the N. Ireland route we will NEVER be ”allowed” to have a democratic vote ?
      Dangerous waters indeed !

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      1. I quite agree. However the question was asked about one rule for Ireland and a different rule for Scotland, and I believe that I have given an honest answer.
        Mind you there is uncertainty about under what circumstances the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland would grant a Referendum.
        There is considerable discussion In Dublin on the topic

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      2. james – Ireland’s different history and different outcome to Scotland’s should not surprise.
        I showed briefly below how Ireland has employed constitutional methods and physical force to achieve its present position vis-à-vis the UK.
        And expressed the hope Scotland would achieve its independence without becoming “insurgent” in Westminster’s eyes as it was at Culloden

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      3. Covenanters, Jacobites 1715 1745 . . . . 1820? I agree with you in recent decades we have gone down the democratic route.
        We have to and right now it’s looking positive.

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    3. was about to write exactly the same thing Edward about this false equivalence.
      The 1801 Irish Act of Union has been modified since soon after it was passed.
      Catholic emancipation (1829) and disestablishment of the Church of ireland (1869) were followed by 5 land Acts (1870- 1909) which reduced the landlords’ power, granting tenants freehold property. Where stands Scotland in 2021 on land reform?
      Westminster was offering Ireland Home Rule (devolution) at the outbreak of the Great War (1914-18).
      Scots should remember what organisation won partial independence for Ireland in 1921 and what organisation persisted in a 30 year war (1968-1998) that brought Westminster to the negotiating table once again.

      As you said, I sincerely hope Scotland never experiences the like

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  13. If Ireland had waited 5 years people could have voted for HomeRule/Independence. Ireland would be Independent. There was a mass Home Rule movement 19C. Charles Stuart Parnell.

    There were Land/Home Rules Bills going through Westminster 1900’s. Land League movement campaigning for land rights. 1914 War suspended Home Rule Bill at Westminster. 1916 Easter Uprising. Dublin. Put down by British Army. Post.Office let standing with bullet marks. The republican leaders were hung.

    Captain Crawford smuggled arms into NI. Vessel passed Port Glasgow, 1914. During 1WW.

    Illegal Partition 1923. Lloyd George. (Welsh). Universal Suffrage 1928.

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    2. Ken
      I must correct on the Easter GPO uprising and other locations
      That the leaders were hung
      They all 15 of them were tried in secret with no defence and sentenced to death and taken to Kilmainham jail and shot by Firing Squad
      James Connolly ( Scottish Born ) was taking from his hospital bed with bullet wounds from the fighting to his court hearing then to Killlmainham were he was tied into a chair and shot
      All this despite the severest of warnings from the elected Irish MP,s at Westminster warning that if the sentences not commuted
      Then they would not be able the Rebellion
      Growing greatly
      90 death sentences were handed out and other than the 15 executed the remainder were commuted
      History regards that these executions and in particular that of Connolly were the nails in the coffin of British colonial rule

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