‘Were America to put it to Westminster that allowing Scotland to become independent was a good idea?’

From Alasdair Galloway

Here’s an idea (for discussion)

In my previous contribution I “spoke of many things” to paraphrase “The Walrus and the Carpenter”. I want to bring together a couple of ideas discussed in there.

First “Is there anyone who doesn’t see the hand of the Americans behind the Good Friday agreement, and the influence of the Irish-American community behind that? If the Irish, why not the Scots? Why not use the Scottish community (or including the ‘wannabe’ Scottish community)? Such activity may be belittled by our critics (devolution doesn’t allow for foreign policy so ultra vires, embarrassing etc), but such criticism seems to me to be an important justification for doing it (ie if they think it isn’t a good thing …).”

It would be a mistake to underestimate our American friends. Were America to put it to Westminster that allowing Scotland to become independent was a good idea, would they hesitate? One reason might be the influence of the Scottish diaspora if we can ever be bothered to get them organized to support this cause in the homeland? But lets put that question the other way round – why don’t they support Scottish independence? Some of the reasons offered are risible

  • They don’t want to be seen to intervene in the internal affairs of another sovereign state. You’ve no idea how hard it is to say that without laughing!
  • That Scottish independence would weaken one of their major European allies, indeed their closest and most trusted European allies (time to pause for more laughter)

But perhaps one highly significant reason they don’t support our independence is that we make regular noises, when discussing independence, not only about chucking out Trident but perhaps not looking to join NATO.  Help m’boab.

The other thought is the Chagos Islands.

“In the case of ICJ, it might be that it can make decisions, but can it enforce these? Or put another way, what can it do to make the UK implement its decisions, which it hasn’t done, for instance, in the cases brought by Mauritius and the Chagos Islands against the UK. In fact, there are several judgements against the UK concerning the Chagos Islands which the UK cheerfully ignores with little sign of loss by doing so.

We should be mindful of the experience of the Chagos Islands. The Chagos Islands had historically been administered from Mauritius, but when Mauritius was negotiating its independence the UK very strongly insisted that when Mauritius became independent they weren’t taking the Chagos Islands with them. Why not? Ever heard of Diego Garcia?

Prior to Mauritian independence, the population of the Chagos Islands was 924, almost entirely employed as contract farm workers primarily on copra plantations. However, between 1968 and 1973, the inhabitants were forcibly expelled from Diego Garcia by the UK Government so that a joint US/UK military base could be established on the island. Many were deported to Mauritius and the Seychelles, following which the United States built the large Naval Support Facility Diego Garcia, which has been in continuous operation since.”

So, let’s suppose a scenario. Scottish Independence is supported by a clear majority 57-62% support let’s say, but Westminster continues to stall. What if the Americans were to put it to Westminster that they should negotiate our independence, but only on the condition that a long term lease is granted on Faslane/ Coulport (perhaps, for our trouble a financial settlement would be negotiated, which a grateful US might contribute to). But as with Mauritius it is made crystal clear that, just as Mauritius had to give away the Chagos Islands (and Cyprus Akratiri), we would be pressured to, if not give away Faslane and Coulport then allow them to be employed for reasons that the Scottish community might not support.

Why would the Americans put such store on Faslane/ Coulport? Its significance  is the ‘Scotland – Iceland gap’ – ie all the Atlantic between Scotland Iceland which is extensively used by the Russians to get their warships/ submarines out of the North Atlantic into open ocean. For that reason it is extensively monitored by NATO who would be most anxious  to keep at least one end of the gap under their control.

Actually I am not entirely convinced that the nuclear weapons on the Clyde just now are all that important. There is, I understand, a view among the higher levels of the US government that the UK should stop kidding itself on about being a great power anymore, and should give up its nuclear arsenal, which is American really in any case. Faslane is after all the home port of all the UK’s submarines, even those with no Trident capability.  It could revert to that status easily.

What is important for the Americans (and for NATO) is the logistical capability that the Clyde offers, and to be able to hang on to this. Perhaps the base would become an international NATO base.

So, to summarise if independence has been negotiated with the proviso that Faslane would continue to be used either by rUK for Trident, or as the centre of NATO’s maritime activities in the North Atlantic, and a confirmatory referendum is to be held, how would you vote?

For what it’s worth I don’t know how I would vote. I’ve always been an “eyes on the prize” kind of guy. One of the things that makes me particularly fed up is that neither Salmond nor Sturgeon seem to appreciate which is more important, their historical legacies or securing independence? To me, it’s clearly the latter. Likewise, if we have to suck up continued use of Faslane, is that not worth it to get Westminster’s nose out of our affairs? OR is offering support – even coerced support – for nuclear weapons and the merchants of such weapons just too immoral a price as we launch our own wee country?   

9 thoughts on “‘Were America to put it to Westminster that allowing Scotland to become independent was a good idea?’

  1. The reason the US doesn’t need to get involved is twofold. Firstly there is no real Scottish American lobby in the way Irish Americans have and secondly the Scottish are too cowardly to get violent.

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      1. Haha , trump , I think he hates Scotland now that we didn’t move the wind farm that is off the coast of his golf course in Aberdeenshire.

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  2. Many years ago I had two stints at Faslane (Royal Navy). It isn’t the weapons that was the worry but the nuke boats.
    I would vote for independence tomorrow if the US had to gain control over the Clyde base—as long as they were not granted sovereignty.
    Why the USA? Because a base in Scotland makes military sense, but they would bully rUK into letting us go—I feel the English elite now have an irrational feeling of “ownership” which the bulk of the population does not share.
    The main thing is convincing Scots to BELIEVE!
    Edinburgh University did research after the referendum with which they stated most Scots voted YES, only to lose because of other UK nationals and EU citizens .
    Sadly that positivity which energised the whole campaign has been lost.
    Scotland has to find it again, overcome the wall of negativity from a media which is openly hostile to Scottish aspirations.
    We are about to get a Labour government.
    We have had them before.
    This time they are openly a right of centre party, who despise public ownership, and advocate wider privatisation in the NHS.
    Give them enough rope and they will pave the way to independence.

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  3. Kennedy did not want the UK to have Polaris. McMillian insisted. Dumping it at Faslane instead of Fort William. Trident etc wasting £Billions
    Trillions on illegal wars. Selling weapons illegally to the Saudis since the 1960s.

    Scotland has always gone through the Ballot box because it could.in NI people were denied the vote and discriminated against.The Masonics backed up by the British Gov. Enough voters in the US of Scottish descent to swing an election. 8% plus the Irish 12%. Pop 320 million.

    Scotland could vote for Independence. NI could vote for reunification. Along with UN principles.

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  4. Biden does not support the British Gov.Irish mother disliked the Gov.The illegal Partition and the Troubles.

    Trump stopped wars.

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  5. No need to go down the appeasement route, Gallagher and Boyle on behalf of Westminster made it pretty clear they intend to annex Faslane and Coulport, probably occupy Arran, parts of Argyle and a great chunk of Ayrshire, so you’ve got nothing to offer the US. Shetland and much of the oil fields will probably be retained as well since they’re listed as Crown assets, Ex Regio. Oil and Gas by the way weren’t sold to the oil companies, licences were granted( for a great deal of money ) allowing the oil and gas industry to sell the oil and gas they extracted, what’s in the ground remains the property of the state. Licences can be revoked of course, and companies ordered to cease production at will.
    The only way for Scotland to retain its territorial integrity is to leave the union via withdrawal from the Treaty of union, otherwise we become a new state and leave with what westminster allows. It’s that simple.

    Golfnut

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  6. Good to remember too that the situation with the Chagos islands began under Harold Wilson’s first administration. Tories and Labour no difference between them on this…there’s a surprise….

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