Above, another Labour MSP tries to weaken the case for independence by casting Scotland, all of it, as essentially a coloniser and a full partner with England’s elites, in that venture.
Anas Sarwar tried the same last August and Sir Prof Tom Devine, another qualified supporter of independence, defended him.
The answer to Choudhury MBE is the same as it was for Sarwar and Devine:
I hesitate to correct Professor Tom Devine in his defence of Anas Sarwar. Once compared with Prof John Curtice, a writer said he was like a premier league footballer and I was like a third-team reserve at Elgin City. Anyone who saw me play would agree that I should have been so lucky. Goodness knows what league I’ll be relegated to if I question Prof Devine.
Anyhow, Sarwar’s support for Pakistan’s independence, considered hypocritical by many including me, was dismissed by Devine as ‘no comparison‘ because Scotland was not ‘subjected to imperial authority‘ and because ‘Scots‘ (sic) took part in the Empire with ‘relish and enthusiastic commitment.‘
He’s wrong. Like even the best of historians, he seems to have forgotten that ‘Scots‘ embraces a far wider spectrum than those few thousands from some Scottish elite groups who did, as he puts it, take part enthusiastically. The millions who remained in Scotland, along with thousands of ordinary soldiers who died in India were the tragic victims of an Empire which had been growing across the British Isles for centuries before their subjection to it – England. It was always called ‘England.’ Ask any Pakistani today and they’ll call it that too.
Surely no credible academic could consider the Union with England anything other than a hostile takeover resulting in monumental suffering, poverty, ill-health, clearance, death in war and mass emigration, for all but a few.
Doesn’t this map of British forts in Scotland in 1746 speak, with articulation, of imperial authority?
Were there this many British forts, per square mile, in 18th Century India?
Finally, didn’t many of India/Pakistan’s elites take part in the Empire with ‘relish and enthusiastic commitment?’
Finally, do we respect the opinions of royalist toadies, a knight and a member of that empire, which as Neil Oliver might have put it, was a cancerous presence in the world?
Talking-up Scotland 'Albatraz' 
Universal Suffrage 1928.
A 40 million diaspora. People from Scotland had to emigrate because of Westminster policy. The Clearances. The higher unemployment in Scotland. The misuse and mismanagement of Scotland revenues and resources. Scotland population from 1900 to 2000. 5 million. A dip 1950s WW dead.
Scotland outvoted 10 to 1. The Jacobite rebellion. 1714 – 1745. The treaty of union 1707. No supported by the majority in Scotland. Not honoured that Scotland should be treated equally. No Democracy. Iraq, Dunblane and Lockerbie kept secret for 100 years.
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This is an example of the ‘generalising from a particular’ fallacy: some Scots were racist and enthusiastic colonisers, pillagers and murderers and made fortunes by exploiting some indigenous peoples. Parts of these fortunes were, in some cases, spent on public works in Scotland and brought some benefit to some ‘ordinary’ Scottish people, ERGO, ALL SCOTS ARE COLONIALIST EXPLOITERS AND THIS WILL EXIST FOR ALL TIME.
The Duke of Sutherland was a Scot who forced the people who worked on his estates to move off the land and overseas, ergo, these people forced off the land, being Scots, were responsible for forcing themselves off the land and overseas.
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I forget where I heard it but just recently someone referred Charlie to the king of England it has always been thus UK meaning England poor Scotland just called North Britain by a certain Brown.
Sarwar readily to celebrate Pakistan independence but not Scotland the country he calls home.
I just cant understand these people who prefer to be ruled and looked down on by Westminster have they been so brainwashed over many years of lies and misinformation that that they cant think for themselves.
O/T Thought I would put this in is this a better deal than our Brexit one.
https://www.tradefinanceglobal.com/wire/eu-new-zealand-set-sign-landmark-free-trade-agreement/
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Chico is, in fact The King of England, and when his mother died in Scotland and he was present, he promptly declared himself King of the Scots and will be presented formally with the ‘Honours of Scotland’ next month. However, most of those who call him King of England mean that he is king of the whole UK because England and UK are synonyms to them.
For the Labour Party (it is the BRITISH /English party,) opposition to independence for Scotland is to a fair extent opposition because they are oppositionist because they think they have a divine right to be in control of the government of Scotland and the people of Scotland were deluded/stupid enough to vote them out of power – the basturts!!!!
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Scott , hello
You say
“ I just cant understand these people who prefer to be ruled and looked down on by Westminster have they been so brainwashed over many years of lies and misinformation that they cant think for themselves.”
As “ jfngw “ says below there is something that makes these scum behave the way they do , it’s called MONEY
You and I would call it bribery , turncoat , a pay off
These britnats are prepared to see and praise Westminster Labour Conservative Lib Dem policies that put their own folk in poverty, for money
BUT when we in Scotland get our independence there will be debts to be paid
jfngw says
“ I’m pretty sure there would have been indigenous people in every area of the British Empire who embraced it with enthusiasm, people will often be lured with the possibilities of money and power (just look at that den of corruption that is Westminster).“
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Oh the irony !
Mr Choudhury MBE castigating the Scots for their alleged involvement as ”colonisers” while proudly displaying his colonisers badge – MBE !
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I’m pretty sure there would have been indigenous people in every area of the British Empire who embraced it with enthusiasm, people will often be lured with the possibilities of money and power (just look at that den of corruption that is Westminster).
So does that indicate all these countries had no right to their independence because some of them were happy about their own situation. Or is this a scenario that is only relevant to Scotland.
Just another attempt to belittle Scots and make them feel inferior, not worthy or capable of running their own country.
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Nice to see so many advocates and defenders of the union acknowledge that Scotland is indeed not a colony even though it’s patently and blatantly treated as one. That only leaves one indisputable alternative in international law as to Scotland’s true relationship with England in this union and that is that Scotland entered into this union by Treaty and therefore had the right to leave the union of chooses to do so.
I think the Muppet forgot to mention that bit.
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We know the families who were paid to “free” slaves.
It would be easy to regain the proceeds of this largess by expropriating the gains made on the back of this.
From the Royals down……………………………..!
Leave the rest of us who made no money out of slavery, colonialism, pillaging and theft of assets etc, alone.
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Gee ffs this choudhury guy can hardly speak English getting numerous words wrong where is he from ? a Bengali I suspect given his reference to the massacre and starvation there , he knows his own history but he doesn’t know Scottish history and if he thinks the treatment of Scottish people throughout our history with England was anything less that what happened in Bengal he is an idiot, I know my very own city was massacred by the English , men women and children starved raped killed in 1651 , but that was just my city , this was happening all over Scotland , it happened on many many other occasions too , this Choudhury chap has a hard neck standing up in our parliament
bumbling his way through his prewritten insults to Scottish people
He should apologise
Why didn’t the chair ask him to apologise for such insults
OH …is she Labour too ?
( written by who I’d like to know )
( certainly not him )
( if he can’t say the words properly he won’t be able to write them either )
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I always chuckle at these nonsense arguments.
Outbreak of ‘democracy’ in the UK was in the early 1900s when people began to get the vote, but even then, what London did not wish to see was brutally suppressed by the police or the military, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_George_Square .
Some might reasonably argue democracy never arrived in the UK, as there is always some lickspittle with an MBE prepared to defend the indefensible, or a BBC political editor desirous of attaining one.
The perverse interpretation that the nationalities of those conscripted or hired by the British State to brutalise Kenya, India or any other place in the Empire’s bloody history was doing so on their nation’s behalf is total bunkum – The number of Irish, Welsh, Indian etc. etc. soldiers involved would have half the planet to blame for the English Empire simply because they were employed.
The average Scot had no say in joining a Union which so oppressed them, but they sure as hell today have a say in ending it.
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Glad to see that miss conception cleared up. That the diaspora created by the wee mannie an his mrs. And my relatives and others lifted from Skye in 1847 and sold into indenture-ship in the Americas.
Where actually revelling in and benefiting from colonialism.
Never forget that the slave-trade was conducted with eager enthusiasm on Scotland, Ireland, and Wales, long before they started sourcing from Africa and continued throughout that part of history. Even after it was out Lawes.
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