It’s Angus for me and for most of you it seems

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Despite what some may think, I’ve had two, quite big, reservations about Nicola. Her apparent deep admiration for the dread Hilary Clinton and uncritical support for US foreign policy in 2015, pre-Ukraine of course, had me fully slapped round the face with a very wet and stinky haddock.

Nevertheless, those have been the only, if big, reservations. On everything else, I’ve agreed and at the end, I rate her the outstanding politician of her time.

Who can replace her?

Not at all easy.

I’ve been unsure, but today, it’s coming together for me.

A quick twitter poll by indy swim with 3 371 followers, earlier today has this

I then did one, but replacing Yousaf with Lynch (reasons below):

After 545 votes, I get:

My mistake in referring to Ash Regan as Ash Gordon may not have helped but either way, there’s not too much support there.

In both, Robertson leads by some way and Forbes comes in second.

The only corporate poll so far, in the Scotsman, has Forbes ahead on 18% and Robertson second on 14%. These low numbers reflect the popularity of a candidate by the name of Ken Dinna. Yousaf was last on 7%.

So, some things are clear here. Only Robertson or Forbes seems likely to win enough support. Maybe they should think of a combined ‘ticket?’

I hesitate to strongly recommend Robertson because, on economic issues I think he’s a bit to the right of my position (aren’t they all?) but he seems experienced, highly intelligent, not distracted, a formidable communicator and, crucially, not vulnerable to a media pile-on.

Regrettably, Forbes, for reasons of faith-based objections to at least, abortion, is vulnerable.

Yousaf, I have championed here in terms of his work as Health Secretary, but he is even more vulnerable to media attack and, more importantly, unacceptable to me, having not voted in favour of same sex marriage, having proposed an amendment to the hate crime bill to exempt transphobic comment, and having voted against the principle of legalising assisted suicide in line with the Assisted Suicide (Scotland) Bill.

Scottish government wants to exempt ‘criticism of transgender identity’ from proposed hate crime law

50 thoughts on “It’s Angus for me and for most of you it seems”

  1. I’ve met Angus on a couple of occasions and he comes across as a calm,level headed person which is what we need just now with the Anglo media jackals feeding frenzy on what they believe to be the corpse of independence.
    Dream on!
    Yes,level heads are what is now required and a refocusing on the main objective of how to become independent from the Anglo state.

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  2. Not for me John, but then I stopped being an SNP member after being suspended for advocating internal democracy so I have no vote. I think it is unwise to praise the FM’s achievements until the real reasons for her resignation are apparent and the dust has settled. Can’t criticise her timing – she played the Ardern card with panache.

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    1. I agree with your second paragraph, but not the third. While I agree with your assertion that the real reason/s for her resignation have still to be revealed, if indeed they ever are, I think her timing was poor. Poor in the respect that it has given our enemies exactly what they desired, her departure from a position of authority. And I am an S.N.P member.

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    2. First off, she hasn’t resigned yet, she has stated her intention to resign. Apart from the Greens I’m not sure you’ll find anywhere in the UK a better example of member participation within a political party. Rather insidiously you infer their might be some nefarious reason yet to be revealed before according her credit for the very real contribution she has made to the welfare and wellbeing of people throughout Scotland, not only through the pandemic but shielding the old and very young from the worst of Tory austerity and malice. Whatever plaudits she receives now are well deserved and a majority of both men and women in this agree.

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  3. We are being groomed to think Angus Robertson is the only contender worth voting for. Bigwigs who are in elected positions in the SNP, and others, are briefing against Kate Forbes – which makes me suspicious. It’s as if they are trying to scare her off, and make sure she doesn’t get on the ballot.

    Whatever else you think of her, Ash Regan has put independence at the forefront of her campaign, and set the standard for others. Anyone who fails to meet that standard will find it very hard to be accepted (by me anyway).

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    1. What an insulting way to express your opinion. I am NOT ‘being groomed’ to find someone who opposes a woman’s right to abortion unacceptable. It is and always will be a strongly held opinion that I share with the majority of SNP members. I suggest taking a look at the hell that is occurring in the US with some states threatening execution of a woman who has an abortion and ask yourself if you really want that brought to Scotland. Since Ash Regan is for a Scotland in which trans people (and possibly other LGBTQ?) do not have rights, I find that equally unacceptable.

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        1. That is a rather nasty comment and less than honest. Forbes has never made transphobic comments that I have seen. I don’t know her position and will withhold comment until I do. There are Catholics and other politicians whose churches oppose abortion & LGBTQ but still support those rights as public policy, the president of the US, for one. And Ash Regan does object to trans rights so much that she resigned over the GRR bill.

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          1. Today Ash Regan has vowed to ‘dump’ the GRR if she becomes FM. Any claim that she is not against trans rights is purely specious. Most of those against the GRR also want to rewrite the Equality Act to exclude trans rights.

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            1. And Kate Forbes commented that her religion meant that she opposed gay marriage. With legislation pending about protecting women accessing abortion rights, it leaves her position on abortion very much the elephant in the parlor that people seem to be studiously ignoring. I am very concerned that she would oppose that as well. Angus is not standing so that leaves a rather narrow field. More nominees are SERIOUSLY needed but I don’t know who.

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          2. I’m not going to engage in a debate about the GRR Bill. My comment on Ash Regan was about her positive approach to independence, and the hope that other candidates come forward with similar views.

            As far as Kate Forbes is concerned, I made no allusions to her views on the issues that are being raised against her elsewhere. It’s the government, hopefully informed by votes at conference, that decides – not an individual, and I think what little Ms Forbes has said on the issue supports that view. By the way, I’m an atheist.

            As to the grooming issue, it was intended to describe what certain people are trying to do – not a suggestion that you have been groomed. I happen to have negative views on Angus Robertson, as the Prof does, and I object to elected SNP officials attempting to influence the outcome of this important election for leader of the SNP. Stephen Flynn and a few others have refused to comment, and I wish others would do the same.

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            1. There is no point in pretending that the GRR will not be a factor. It is. I have not seen comments by Forbes. I *have* by Regan and will strongly oppose her. He opposition to trans rights are on the record.
              Other than Pete Wishart, who always has something to say for better or worse, I haven’t really seen a lot of campaigning by officeholders. There are some things I could criticise about Angus Robertson. That is true of a lot (most?) politicians and is nothing important enough that it would make me oppose him.
              If it comes down to being between Robertson and Regan, for me, there is absolutely no choice. If Forbes throws in her hat, I’ll wait and see what she says on the issues. I dislike the tendency to assume we know what a politician will do because we know what religion they are.

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              1. Just a quick point, I don’t think Ash Regan is against trans rights – they already have those rights. It is against the reforms she is against I believe and there are many people who also have concerns about some of the implications from those reforms (eg. Keir Starmer, Rishi Sunak). The real issue is encapsulated by Stewartb in his post below with regard to democracy.

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      2. Ms Regan appears intent on using the newly acquired powers of FM to ditch a Bill that has been passed after very careful and lengthy consideration by our democratically-elected parliament on a cross-party basis.

        Ms Regan seems intent on ditching a Bill with cross-party support that would now be law if not for the Westminster government’s unwarranted intervention in our affairs, by a governing party that a majority of Scottish voters have long rejected. That action undermines even the limited agency we the voters of Scotland have in this Union: accepting the representative status of our Holyrood Parliament but only on conditional basis, only if its decisions are aligned to one’s own view of a particular issue, is – let’s say politely – ‘problematic’ for me.

        Ms Regan seems intent on ditching a piece of legislation passed by our parliament on a cross party basis that is wholly in line with both UN and Council of Europe human rights principles, policies and obligations.

        She seems intent on ditching a piece of legislation passed by our parliament on a cross party basis that is wholly in line with what even the Tory Westminster government led by PM May intended to introduce up until the ‘screeching about turn’ when (that socially progressive?) PM Boris Johnson came to power.

        She seems intent on ditching a piece of legislation passed by our parliament on a cross party basis that is wholly in line with an increasing number of countries across the world, including Nordic countries and most recently Spain – and legislation that may well be progressed in time in Westminster and/or Cardiff if the Labour Party wins/regains power in the next round of elections.

        And candidly she seems intent on this course of action apparently ignoring the blindingly obvious, that the media framing of the issue in Scotland was in large part motivated by an ‘SNP/Green bad on everything’ sentiment.

        Don’t support Ash Regan for SNP leader and FM if she seeks to win support based on her intentions regarding Gender Recognition reform.

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    2. BritNats will love her for being anti the GRR bill which took six years to devise and was voted for in the actual Scottish parliament, but banned by the English government.
      It’s crucial to have a leader who will be a very sharp and effective thorn in the side of the BritNat establishment and English government.

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  4. Too early.
    Let’s wait for all nominees to put forth their programs.
    Robertson is a safe pair of hands, but we need to enthuse people.
    Forbes is a vote-winner with a certain demographic, if the religious thing doesn’t trip her up.
    Regan is a bit unknown, but on first appearances looks OK.
    Yousaf is doomed by the relentless bad-mouthing of Scotland NHS, even though it is better than elsewhere.

    There is a big push from England/Scotlands right-wingers (Labour, Tory and the press) to down the Indy movement.
    No mistakes from us at this juncture, please.

    If Starwars is on the rise, perhaps “Glenn” could ask him about his preference for private education/health, and if his support for striking teachers/nurses is not hypocritical when these strikes don’t affect him or his family.

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  5. Early days, so we don’t know yet who all the official runners and riders will be. I’d be surprised if Kate Forbes were to compete as her baby is just 6 months old and a post like FM is such a demanding job that her private family life would have to take a back seat. This seems an unfair burden for her, her baby and her husband. Surely the highly experienced Angus Robertson would be the best choice at this moment? Given his age, he’d be unlikely to want to stay in the post more than 8 years and that gives the young contenders more experience, plenty time to sharpen their skills and be ready for greater responsibility when the time comes for a new leader.

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  7. I think that the election period needs to be extended so that hustings meetings can be held – as happened the previous times there were genuine contests back in 2000 in 2004. I am in no rush to elect the party’s new leader without first being given the chance to get them to answer questions on specific issues. This needs to be a contest, not a coronation.

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  8. I’m not really understanding this because the email I received only showed Ash Regan and Humza Yousaf. Is it likely that more will be added?

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    2. They are just one vote. There are 129 members in Holyrood. A large party. Putting forward on various topics. Voted upon by the members at Conference. Delegates from the branches.

      Any leader has to conform with consensus. Or be out. International Law is supposed to be followed. Or can end up in Court. There are various religions represented in the Parliament. A consensus can be followed. A manifesto. Or candidates will be voted out.

      People can vote with their conscious but they have only one vote. Manifestos are made and debated. Supposed to be honoured Then there is a vote.

      The leader is significant but there is no one to suit all. Just the majority. People in the Party will vote for them. If they fail, they will be voted out.

      There has to be consensus with a majority of the electorate or fail. The leaders know the score and act accordingly.

      Regan and some of the others wanted to change the legislation. No ban the Bill. Change the current form.

      An accountant should be able to read a balance sheet, count and understand statistics. Unlike too many politicians and ‘journalists’. Out for themselves. A few principles would not go amiss in a leader. Not tell lies etc. Not a greedy liar out for themselves.

      Thou shall not kill. Commit adultery etc. Might be an advantage.

      Too many politicians are lying hypocrites. Especially unionists. Now on a dodgy peg.

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  9. Robertson skeletons in the cupboard. Has young children. No one mentions that but mentions that for women. There are reports Forbes has 3 step children too. Quite a brood. Many men managed to look after children if the women is the main bread winner. Or employ some help. Just like both sexes. The extended nursery care can be an advantage.

    Just wait and see who the members chose. Often people grow into the job. There are plenty of members to keep them informed. The largest Party in the UK by far. The highest massive successes. Keep the faith although Scotland is secular. Churches are losing members faster than a sieve loses water. Anyone going for leadership knows the score. They will not last long if they do not follow the majority wishes. The push comes from the grass roots and the delegates. Independence is the game and Independence is the aim. Get to it. For Scotland to be a prosoerous, equal, successful country with ties to Europe. Not the corrupt, toxic mismanagement of Westminster. Going on for far to long, Time to sling the hook.

    More false promises and nonsense from Labour. Abolish the HoL. More powers? More Evel promises. That’s been done time and time before. Wolf. Now no one believes the vow. People in Scotland who support Independence, need to go out and vote, every election. To vote the opposition out. Use it or lose it. Independence will come sooner. Supporters just get out and vote. A higher turnout. .

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  12. Scottish Independence Congress met Saturday, 200+ delegates from the Yes movement met to discuss the way forward, preferred option with an 80% approval was to use the next UK GE as a vote for Independence.

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        1. Never heard of them. A general election controlled by the English government, calling the shots re who is allowed to vote, sounds like a recipe for utter disaster. No 16/17 year olds would not be given the choice about their own future and their country’s future, and EU nationals still living in Scotland would be excluded. Forget it.

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          2. It was organised by Believe in Scotland and involved Yes groups from Orkney to the borders, the Yes groups sent delegstes, Mike Russell, Ross Greer and someone from Alba addressed the meeting.

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  13. Nicola Sturgeon was a thorn in the side of the English government, the new SNP leader needs to be even more so. The Brit state will use any leverage such as the GRR bill to attempt to thwart the further development of the independence movement. Divide to ensure to keep control is already a tactic they have deployed. The SNP politicians need to be on the same page right now, more crucial than ever, or be controlled by the English government like puppets.

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  14. Please remember that as long as Mr Murrel remains as CEO and that he has the final say I fear that as the constitution can now altered without any input from the party grass routes it will be whoever he decides on , he should never have been in that position as husband of the first minister time will tell but power under his watch has been gradually eroded away from the grass routes members and I am sure he is the cause of the lack of unity with the SNP and the greater Yes movement.

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  18. As I have already said ideally I would have preferred a fresh face but if Kate has decided to stand she will have my vote. Despite her ‘being an accountant’ !!! and as long as she resists the temptation to thrust her personal views on rUS I think she will go down well with those of the electorate not already on board for Indy.

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    1. She is most definitely not ‘going down well’. I will give her honesty in saying her position opposing gay rights, but a huge number of people will not stomach that. I am with them rather obviously.

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      1. Well as an ‘Accountant!!’ her views on Gay Rights I guess are no surprise but there is little more ‘she’ or indeed the Scottish Government can do on their own on that issue that could cause any damage to Public opinion and I think she is savvy enough to know that. Furthermore I suspect her views on Gay Rights are shared more widely with those in society that need to be converted to the cause of Independence that she might reach better than any of the other candidates so far. Regrettable as it is it is my generation (60’s+) that are still mostly stuck in the ‘dark ages’ and they may feel thay have an ally in Forbes. All that said my overriding preference would be for a fresh face but apart from Michelle Thomson I see no other obvious candidate at the moment. I live in hope another will emerge in the coming days that has the same leadership qualities as Sturgeon.

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  19. I hope and expect that Ms Forbes has considered carefully the fate of Tim Farron, Lib Dems leader back in 2017. This is from The Guardian at the time of Farron’s resignation from that post:

    ‘“From the very first day of my leadership, I have faced questions about my Christian faith. I’ve tried to answer with grace and patience. Sometimes my answers could have been wiser.

    “The consequences of the focus on my faith is that I have found myself torn between living as a faithful Christian and serving as a political leader,” he said in a televised statement.

    “To be a political leader – especially of a progressive, liberal party in 2017 – and to live as a committed Christian, to hold faithfully to the Bible’s teaching, has felt impossible for me.”

    He added: “I seem to be the subject of suspicion because of what I believe and who my faith is in. In which case we are kidding ourselves if we think we yet live in a tolerant, liberal society.”

    (Based on recent times in Scotland – even if based on the activities of a significant and vocal minority – regrettably I have no difficulty in agreeing with Mr Farron’s last sentence.)

    Source: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/14/tim-farron-quits-as-lib-dem-leader

    Of course, Mr Farron was (just) leader of a ‘harmless’ political party. Ms Forbes may become not only FM of Scotland but also leader of a particular party and government – perhaps potentially a wider movement – that is intent on ending the Union.

    We know what the overwhelming view of the UK corporate media and the BBC is on the SNP and the wider independence movement. We also know the depths to which politicians opposing independence will sink. All the aforementioned can and will be unrelentingly brutal towards any new SNP leader. Ms Forbes is likely – like Mr Farron – to face other, additional and more personally challenging attack lines.

    Having noted the above, in her performances as Finance Minister, as a presence in the Holyrood Chamber and in media interviews, I have found her most impressive. In short, I admire her political performances to date. And I admire her (and the other candidates’) courage – which has to be there alongside their ambition – in seeking such a leadership position within the kind of society we live in.

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  20. His opinion of a ‘tolerant’ society and mine differ radically. I have no problem with him believing that I am an evil person because I am gay. I DO have a problem with him trying to write his beliefs into law.

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    1. Gay marriage is a done and dusted issue, whether Kate Forbes supports it or not is irrelevant, it’s a personal opinion which she is entitled to hold and to express. An opinion probably held by many but has since been accepted, a sign surely of a tolerant society. It is the media, as with so many issues which causes the division and intolerance so ably demonstrated by yourself because someone dares to hold and express an opinion contrary to your own.

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