Is the SNP too popular with the working classes, Kevin?

I haven’t read any of the above in Herald today. I don’t need to.

I can guess. It’s about Nicola trying to stop Old Firm fans from singing offensive songs and some other supposed ‘totalitarian’ behaviour from a man who has no apparent problems with Papal bulls.

The detail doesn’t really matter because the basic premise in the headline is plain daft.

In the most recent full poll from YouGov, it’s clear that SNP support is and remains significantly (around 15%) stronger among the working classes (C2DE) than among the middle and upper classes (ABC1):

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/l0arqcm4ea/TimesResults_200810_ScotlandV2_W.pdf

Why might that be? It’s kind of easy.

The sharp contrast between the SNP and UK Tory governments on health, taxation, welfare and housing, on top of falling crime levels and now, far better management of a pandemic, appeals strongly to those who have less and are who less secure. Remember, many of the working-classes are older reliable voters who care little for McKenna’s concerns.

Most of the working classes are not interested in football, far less the Old Firm. Judging by her massive popularity most of the population admire a leader who is clear, consistent, unpretentious and demonstrably on their side.

The SNP clearly does have a problem with the more affluent in our society who see and resent the more favourable tax allowances in England. Can that be changed? Does it matter that much?

15 thoughts on “Is the SNP too popular with the working classes, Kevin?”

  1. Prof, go easy on big Kev. He’s always been a bumptious big nyaff. The puir downtrodden wee East End Kafflik inside, is still struggling with the Man About The West End outer coating. His opposition to OBFA was because it was supposed to stop them big bad Proddies singing the Sash, while up to their knees in Fenian blood, not stop the Sellik Family from lauding the brave freedom fighters of the IRA.

    The soul is confused, even before you factor in his anger at the SNP stealing his pure version of the Labour Movement’s clothes. And, he has to keep his nose clean with the right-waing decision-makers who pay his wages.

    In such a sad case, confused – you will be.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Muc Kenna should stick to discovering

    WAT HIS OWN CLASS WANT FOR SCOTLAND
    NO POINT TRYING TO POP AT SNP
    YOUR SKILLS,!!!!!!!!
    ARE WASTED

    Like

  3. I am not so sure that the SNP does not have a problem with the “working classes”, many of whom are not working. (I have not read McKenna’s piece either.)

    While the SNP is right to say that it is austerity and UK welfare policies that cause poverty in Scotland and in the rest of the UK it appears wedded itself to neoliberal policies if it sticks to the Growth Commission. It also declines to tell us the kind of Scotland that would exist when independent.

    Like

    1. Yes it’s rather contradictory from their earlier position, I can only assume it’s the same as what happened with Labour – corral your working class support that are the most likely to be loyal (or, not have the time or energy to constantly review the political situation perhaps) then gradually bring in the elite-supporting neo-liberal policies.

      And we are somewhat lacking in vision and plans from that quarter too. There are plenty things that could be getting put in place now (or years ago even) to prepare. But all I ever see and hear is mitigation and ‘working within the framework of UK law’ ,,, devolution forever? It doesn’t fill me with hope. There are just too many things now that make the prospect of staying in the uk a dire prospect – de-fanging Holyrood, opening that Scotland in uk office, brexit, no food standards, that stuff you mentioned about the Barnett formula,,, just the whole thing, so many things, that will be making our situation much worse. Are we to let ourselves be browbeaten back into our box, to just suck it up yet again?

      Liked by 2 people

      1. “Are we to let ourselves be browbeaten back into our box, to just suck it up yet again?”

        I don’t think so. I remember the remark by a disconsolate Harry Burns the day after the referendum: “The poor have been put back in their box.” There are many constraints on what Scotland can do now to level up. There are things that might be done such as reforming Council tax and making it redistribute rather more than now. Devising a Land Tax for the purposes of redistributing more is possible.

        We all could encourage Councils to foster Property Management Groups among Council house tenants with the aim of managing their own properties, employing and training people within the area.

        The SNP people I know all think that Scotland should have a social democratic system of government like the Nordic countries and that the Growth Commission should be scrapped. The government might be behind with what their party members want now. They will get the message.

        This is a great blog for showing up the differences between a Scottish government and a UK government.

        https://www.scottishhousingnews.com/article/east-lothian-council-partners-with-people-s-energy-to-tackle-fuel-poverty#:~:text=East%20Lothian%20Energy%20gives%20county,affordable%2C%20sustainable%20and%20fair%20energy.&text=%E2%80%9CEast%20Lothian%20Energy%20customers%20will,members%20through%20an%20annual%20rebate.%E2%80%9D

        I made the suggestion for the Council and company to get together a year ago. Will you, please, tell your local Council how this might be useful?

        Community cafes in all towns to use up food that would otherwise go to waste?

        Like

    2. Wow, ‘many of the working classes are NOT working’.
      Do clarify and send evidence of that if you don’t mind terribly. If the ‘working classes’ are ‘not working’ what are they doing, sitting around living in luxury!???
      The legacy of the union lives on, and will do for a long time to come, the SNP have mitigated huge cuts to the poorest (the people the Britnats in the EngGov made and kept poor)and every (Johnson) ‘£’ that is removed from he people of Scotland, is a ‘£’ removed from the local and wider economy of Scotland. Eg the Tory/red Tory bedroom tax, if people cannot pay their rent to the council, the council has less money to provide services like social care and other public services! If people have no money to spend in local shops, smaller shops close down.

      No idea if the ‘SNP’ have a crystal ball or not, but I am sure they’d quite like Scotland to NOT resemble a nasty, destructive, backward Tory BritNat country, as England is, ever more far right wing, which is the last thing the working class actually need. However fascists rely on the ‘working classes’ to oppress each other don’t they. That’s not what we want to see in Scotland and the SNP given their record in mitigating Tory cuts, cushioning the terrible blows to Scotland’s poorest, and most vulerable, setting up of the new social security system based on fairness, scrapping dreadful DWP interrogations (England’s tactics to ensure people feel less than worthy of anything especially money!). Only some ‘benefit’s are being devolved you can see which ones on the SNP website. It is also delayed due to Covid19, but the SNP top up the tiny DWP carers allowance ( £66.00 a week), by £480 a year so that extra bills can be paid etc expecially crucial during this terrible time now.

      So far the Scottish government with the SNP at the helm have done wonders actually in a few short years to improve lives of the people of Scotland, in health, social care, education, infrastructure, housing, renewables etc, had any BritNat party been at the helm as they were for decades (and Britnat rule over 100’s of years), it just does not bare thinking about how Scotland would be now. Labour had TEN years in office in the Scottish parliament and plunged Scotland into literally £BILLIONS of’ debt’ with their disgusting PFI scams and to really put the boot in they sent £1.5 BILLION back to WM saying ‘nothing to spend it on in Scotland’, nothing. Let’s not mention the drugs which were fed into local communities and even now we have a problem with English drugs gangs invading Scotland’s communities preying on the vulnerable. It’s all orcestrated to keep the ‘working classes’ down and for many, ‘not working’ as you say in your comment.

      I am sure an independent Scotland can do much, much better than the past 300 years of BritNat rule. The BritNat parties will either have to shift away from London, or start up new parties, but that’s up to them.

      To my mind, the SNP have actually done an excellent job so far, given they have not been at the helm in government before. Long as they can keep the more questionable people in the party at arms length, and I hope they can, but the BritNat dying empire still scarily has some life in it. Scotland is up against a monster.

      It’s very clear that a future Scotland shackled to a disastrous destructive UK in fact would be a terrible, poverty ridden ‘future’ not worth having.

      So, ‘the kind of Scotland that would exist when independent’ is your question, well, it is up to the people, the voters, to decide that, we need independence first and foremost though.

      Sorry long comment.

      Liked by 4 people

      1. I think it might help or hinder independence being achieved if we knew what the Scottish government was proposing. This seems to be it.

        https://www.counterfire.org/articles/opinion/21394-scottish-independence-and-class-politics.

        Not working? Here are the unemployment figures.Unemployment is not devolved. I did not say it was the fault of the SG. Just the numbers.

        “Scotland’s unemployment rate is now the highest among all the UK nations, according to official figures. The Office for National Statistics (ONS) said unemployment in Scotland for people over 16 was 4.6%, compared with a UK rate of 3.9%.16 Jun 2020”

        I used to say that nothing could be done about health inequalities in Scotland without devolution of economic and welfare policies. More could be done using the powers we do have. A Land tax?

        I do think government is not easy.

        Like

    3. SAM , can you tell us what kind of Scotland it will be when independent ?
      No of course you can’t
      Neither can anyone else
      All we can tell you is that it will be a kind of Scotland decided by…you guessed it…Scotland

      SAM ..once Scotland is independent we won’t have the kind of Scotland we have now which is a Scotland largely and mostly designed by England

      By the way SAM your posts in response to the previous subject covered here about coronavirus infections in English food production establishments did ever so good at trying to do what westminster do you know….mix up U.K. stats and England stats so that people think England’s figures are lower than they are….we seen through it SAM

      I would say nice try but know what ? I want to say something much ruder than that

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Largely and mostly designed by UK government (not England as you say) is true. I think I made the point by reference today to the effects of austerity, welfare policy, flawed fiscal settlement on Scotland.

        It was the apparent stance on independence of the Scottish government to which I was referring. I am not alone in thinking this.

        https://www.counterfire.org/articles/opinion/21394-scottish-independence-and-class-politics

        You missed this.

        sam
        August 29, 2020 at 8:58 am
        FSA monitoring 40 food factory COVID-19 outbreaks in England.

        Like

  4. “The important point to take from this paper [link below] is that the, justifiable, ambiguity about the effect of the old Barnett Formula has been swept away. Barnett in its old form is well and truly dead. Instead, the cynical way in which the vow was implemented replaced Barnett with a system which was only supposed to work to Scotland’s advantage if Scotland paid the price of implementing unacceptable neo-liberal policies. There needs to be a clear eyed appreciation of the characteristics of the current fiscal settlement before the review of that system which is scheduled to take place after it has been in operation for five years: and, indeed, before wider decisions can be made about Scotland’s political future. Hopefully, this paper will have contributed to that appreciation.”

    https://www.euppublishing.com/doi/full/10.3366/scot.2020.0333

    Like

  5. Looking at the photo of football fans makes me think is a storm brewing over different cases of punishment.

    Celtic player 3 match ban now 2 in Feb
    Aberdeen 8 players 5 match ban to come if Feb.
    Just asking,I know it was different circumstances but they all broke the law.
    Not a football fan so no axe to grind.

    Like

  6. SAM…forget reviews of the Barnett formula it’s too late for that it should have been fair and accurate in the first place.
    Scotland complains ….and we get “ OH…we VOW bla bla bla bla “

    Forget it SAM there won’t be any review that will reverse the tide of anger and resolve to change matters
    Only Scottish independence will open a new book

    Only the last page of this U.K. book needs written

    It could be a nice comfortable agreeable last page but with England’s Westminster being as disagreeable uncooperative and predictable as it is we can expect a distasteful end to this story .
    Scotland will become independent but relations with England’s Westminster will be damaged.

    So be it.

    Liked by 1 person

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.