From Contrary
Now that you’ve mentioned the T word [in the piece on the Top 50], I want to share some links of interesting information. I really appreciate what Stu [Wings] is doing to keep us informed of the ‘debate’, and I think I can assume that most people want to avoid it, it being apparently controversial, and with the mainstream media NOT keeping us informed.
I am glad his SNP-bashing has calmed down a bit too. Most ‘socially progressive’ (I.e. Not Tory) political parties are on the bandwagon, but I appreciate with the SNP in government there is a danger of them pushing through socially harmful policies if not kept in check.
I am not going to link specifically to debate issues here, just origins of money and ideology for a bit of perspective.
A couple of things first – this is a global phenomenon, and many countries are affected, and many institutions have been infected worldwide. There is no ‘best practice’. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness, quite a serious one, and the people that have it deserve compassion, but they also need professional support, psychiatric support. The reason the arguments might not make sense is because there is no rational solution when a serious mental illness is involved, so don’t try to make sense of it. There are already human rights protections in place, and anti discrimination laws. I would say we could, as a society, be far more accepting and compassionate, but the current ideology that is being forced on everyone will not achieve that, and will do more harm than good. The main danger is, of course, to children who do not have the physical or emotional maturity to deal with this.
The Gender Recognition Act reform consultation, well, it is a difficult read. There is a large amount of confusion between a gender stereotype (which can be anything, it’s a social construct) and gender as sex – the two are conflated and not defined. A big issue is they would like to do away with the psychiatric and other kinds of evaluation: I believe this will cause more harm than good. Strangely, they never once suggest removing the fee for a gender recognition certificate – surely as a medical condition, this could be issued free?
So, why has what everyone thought was a fairly small minority group issue started affecting the whole of society, throughout the world? A few clues: money,,, lots of money
The Billionaires behind the LGBT movement – a journalists investigation on the origins of funding, and likely why this has become a huge global issue:
Effectively the large pharmaceutical companies are rubbing their hands in anticipation of selling lots more unnecessary, and dangerous, drugs.
Here is an interesting thread on where the actual ideology likely started…
Twitter thread on psychiatric origin of treatment in gender and it’s redefinition:
https://mobile.twitter.com/TwisterFilm/status/1224766770805866499
Here is a link putting in perspective how sometimes we have to accept our bodies the way they are, and a comparison,
Disabled human rights:
https://mobile.twitter.com/TheSkelf/status/1228163975042359303
Letter asking for clarification on the GRA consultation (unanswered?):
https://mobile.twitter.com/mbmpolicy/status/1225379169581883392
During my background checks looking into the institutions involved in PFI deals, I realised how little I knew about how government actually works, and what the civil servants role is in government. I am learning more about it still, but the civil servants will be the part of government that advises on the legal and policy aspects, they say what would work, to a proposed new policy from ministers. It puts into perspective those ‘failed’ policies of the SNP government – if it fails, it could be because the advice given has been inadequate. I started to get very concerned about the Scottish government procedures when they avoided the judicial review that Alex Salmond had brought to court – I detected a distinct lack of transparency – something that we were promised. A judicial review can be a very good thing, and should have been welcomed.
A serious risk assessment needs to be done on the GRA reform bill, particularly on how it will affect children. A new generation all growing up with PTSD from the trauma is not something I would like to see.
Talking-up Scotland 'Albatraz' 
Thanks Con for this comprehensive piece which might help me understand all of this better.
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Thank you! I’ve been reading a lot about the subject, but not discussing it because of the ‘controversial’ aspect – I do hope it doesn’t bring out the trolls! And you are up far too late John, get some sleep 😉
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Thanks from me too Con.
And, ye gods, there’s a lot more could be said about this (a lot of it unfit for MY eyes)!
One of the worst aspects of it, in terms of SNP issues, has been the attacks on perfectly genuine gender-critical senior members of the party (MSPs and MPs) – many of which are by the youth wing. Their comments have been beyond the pale and nothing seems to have been done about it.
I imagine we’ve all seen the nonsense spouted by most of the contenders for the Labour leadership – ye gods again!
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Thanks Indy, I think it’s really sad that a sensitive issue like this can turn into a hate-fuelled propaganda machine. There are so many aspects of it that is causing harm, and will cause a lot more harm before its done, that I realised I didn’t want to list any of them – plenty of far more informed people have written on the issue. What we need to be alert to is avoiding getting bogged down in detailed debate – there lies the path to madness, because it’s not a rational debate. We also need to remember the ideology (sexual fetishists?) is separate from most of the people that have really transitioned due to distressing body dysphoria.
It never ceases to amaze me what money can buy though. (Or even, Money!)
It does appear that folk have jumped on the bandwagon as though it’s a social justice fight, like for LGB rights, and it just isn’t, not the way they are going about it.
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I agree that this is a difficult matter to talk about, not least because any criticism or questioning of the GRA proposals are without fail labelled ‘transphopic’ by (well organised) people on a mission and increasingly by well meaning people whose emotional impulse is to be ‘inclusive’ – even if the cost and consequence is irrationality.
The consultation on GRA is open – not only to people in Scotland – but to people worldwide ~ and those advocates of the bill are very vocal in promulgating this to pressure groups and vested interests out with Scotland. Contrary’s article above points up the global nature of this minority movement. There are already more than 1500 responses to the proposals with a majority in favour of them.
I do not know what weighting, if any, will be given to responses from those resident in Scotland, but it seems to me that it is extremely important that decisions taken on this matter will be made with reference to people in Scotland rather than to pressure groups elsewhere who will be unaffected by the consequences of the legislation – and this will form part of my own response to the consultation.
My concern is that too few people will voice concerns. The narrative seems to be that women’s Groups, feminists and LGB people are most vocal in their concern – so maybe not something ‘straight’ men should bother themselves with. And yet my experience is that most of the men I have discussed this with are very uncomfortable with aspects of the legislation once they become aware of the potential impact on wives and daughters. Whether they will take the trouble to respond to the consultation (by March 17) is another matter.
With reference to SNP bashing by Wings and other commentators – the criticism is not so much that young activists are pushing an agenda (they are there in all parties) but that the aggressive and unacceptable targeting of fellow members is tolerated and perhaps condoned.at senior levels within the party – and there seem to be many indications that this is the case.
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Well put Jomry, all these things are of concern.
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Correction
I should have said that many men I have discussed GRA with have expressed disquiet about some of the proposals per se – not simply because of the impact on wives and daughters.
Apologies
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Consultation on the DRAFT Gender Recognition Bill closes on 17th March 2020. You can find links to the consultation here
https://consult.gov.scot/family-law/gender-recognition-reform-scotland-bill/
The consultation – see link below – on ammending the Gender Recognition Act 2004 took place in 2017-18 and garnered 15,500 responses not all from Scotland but the responses were analysed fully.
https://consult.gov.scot/family-law/review-of-the-gender-recognition-act-2004/
The responses were independently analysed and the results can be found here
https://www.gov.scot/publications/review-gender-recognition-act-2004-analysis-responses-public-consultation-exercise-report/pages/1/
Particularly interesting is the list of organisations that did respond – see Annex 1. At least one organisation that has been given lots of space on the WoS Twitter feed to air its criticisms of the Scottish Government and complain about not getting a meeting with the relevant Scottish Minister does not appear on the list of organisations that submitted comments.
The Minister made a statement in Holyrood in June 2019 . It is worth a read
https://www.gov.scot/publications/statement-gender-recognition/
It is certainly more measured than some of the hysterical outpourings on Twitter
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I am not quite sure what your point is here Legerwood, you have not expressed an opinion, but if it is that the government’s proposed reforms all make perfect sense to you, then you could give us a summary explaining why they are making the reforms they propose and what the effect might be on wider society? Or do you believe the risk assessments they are carrying out are adequate, and because it is a draft bill it doesn’t matter? Maybe you don’t believe an agenda is being pushed by big pharma?
The government consultation does not help people understand why this is an issue, and their assessments and statements do not help clarify why we can’t discuss it, or can’t express concern for the vulnerable in society. Why are they teaching children it is okay to hate their own body, and what do you think happens next after you allow children to ‘choose’ their gender – that is conferring a level of consent on children that they should not have – what will they be asked to consent to next, that they don’t have the physical and emotional maturity to be able to make an informed decision on? To my mind, the Scottish government is being very naive and not thinking through the consequences – that they did not consider that the safeguarding of children might be a priority above ‘inclusion’ just makes no sense whatsoever. The GRA reform bill says one thing, but you can see from the statement linked to that you claim is ‘worth a read’ that they are proposing much more reform outwith any bill, and you have to ask why.
‘Measured’ is not a word I would use to describe that statement you linked to, worrying political hyperbole maybe.
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Legerwood,
Thank you for the links. I refer in particular to the link providing analysis of responses to previous consultation. The report notes that 49% of the responses received were from people/organisations in Scotland. It then proceeds throughout to list proportions of positive/ negative reactions to each of the questions asked as percentages of the total responses received. Nowhere is there any analysis of the breakdown of Scottish responses.
I believe that this is very important information. It is essential to know what the response to the proposals has been from the Scottish electorate since they are the body impacted by any proposed legislation. Views from elsewhere may be of interest in discussion of issues but why are people and organisations out with Scotland being consulted on what is in this context a Scottish political matter.
To deliberately omit such an analysis is worrying. Sleight of hand..???
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At the beginning Contrary wrote: ‘I do hope it doesn’t bring out the trolls!’
It crossed my mind too but you have to say that the debate here has been really stimulating, thoughtful and encouraging. I’m chuffed.
Contrary has been the ideal blogger, responding in the same way to further enlighten us all.
The tweeted version, more at risk of troll-attack, drew no comments so I guess they all came here.
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That’s good news John! And you are a braver person than me for posting it as part of your blog – I have spent a lot of time reading and thinking about the apparent issue – and it isn’t particularly pleasant when you are being asked to justify your existence based on something you thought just IS, having to analyse your own being and question your acceptance of certain social norms and your place in it – but a few things put my mind at rest, put the apparent arguments in context – I think it’s good to share some of the basics of that peace of mind. We are not evil for having the social structures we have.
I have a lot more I could say! But one thing that’s being used to influence people is a confusing morass of information – this really is about thought control I think – so wanted to aim towards giving some context for consideration, not detail or too much opinion. Some points for further consideration (and opinion):
1. We could be doing more to break down gender stereotypes and general (usually unconscious) sexism within society – this would be a more helpful (well, perhaps, see below) to people having difficulty fitting into social norms defined by gender (sex). There are plenty of people that do not conform, I am slightly one of them, but that does not suddenly make you a different sex or even confer a desire to be so. I refuse to wear high heels and short skirts to conform to someone else’s idea of a gender stereotype. There are difficulties for both sexes, mostly brought upon ourselves in society – let’s all be a bit kinder to ourselves.
2. The mental illness of gender dysphoria is a form of self-loathing, it is not particularly about wanting to be something else, it’s about hating part of what you are or who you are, and wanting to change it. Anyone that has disliked something about them-self will know you either come to terms with it, accept it, learn to love yourself as you are,,, or you go down the road of having to change that part to give you apparent peace of mind. Sometimes it can’t be changed – medical science isn’t that advanced – and so help is needed for you to accept yourself, or the approximation of yourself that can be changed. So I believe psychiatric support is always needed for gender dysphoria (so the GRA reform is wrong to suggest removing this assessment).
3. Anyone that is mentally ill, while ill, will never believe they need assessment. That is why the law allows people to be sectioned – their freedom taken away because they pose a danger to themselves and/or to others – and why it is not healthy to just affirm delusions. You cannot ignore the past, or change history, on whims.
4. The GRA (2004) already in existence is sufficient and fully complies with human rights laws. The current consultation does not make that clear. (Still, they could have removed the need for people to pay a fee for the gender recognition certificate). Jomry brings up a good point about the formation of a Scottish law being open to worldwide opinion – why? Is this the usual way of things?
5. Lots of money has been pumped into what can only be called a confused ideology – selling a mental illness into society to normalise it – while medical science is not advanced enough to satisfy any of the needs of this ideology. That money could have been used, billions of dollars, billions and billions, to advance research – most likely endocrinology – and probably benefitting the whole of society by finding out not just how our bodies actually work, but finding solutions to many hormone-based illnesses (growth hormone conditions, thyroid, diabetes, a whole raft of conditions that have no real treatment – it has even been postulated that certain cancers could be controlled through control of the endocrine system). If you had billions of dollars, would you start a cult to change how people think, or would you fund research to make your dream a reality? We come back to the difference between a true desire to be something else and just hating what you are.
6. What is there sudden urgency for widespread and wholesale changes to the way we live? Why no small step changes and explanations and development? Why the sudden need to teach children the ideology?
I have more to say on society and mental illness, but I’ve said enough already!
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Appendix:
The SNP women’s pledge have written out possible answers to the GRA reform bill consultation, they say you can cut and paste the text if you like (obviously, only if you agree with it), but it is also helpful for giving some insights into what the proposed reforms mean:
http://www.snpwomenspledge.com
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