Open Forum
By Professor John Robertson
In the voice of Paul Merton:
An open forum? We’ve never had one of those before!
The report from the Guardian above, prompted a friend of TuS to ask the above question.
Now, if you want to argue about education or media effects, maybe these days, health, crime and transport, I’m up for that, but the economy? For some reason, my brain won’t go there with any conviction.
However, I know, based on the evidence of comments over the last 10 years in TuSland, that you lot are smart, perhaps even ‘qualified’, perhaps (better?) ‘autodidacts’, definitely better, like the killer in Twin Peaks, (Bob Robertson!) with ‘minds like a polished diamond.’
So, what do you think?
Answers below, in no more than 200 words NMRN, Stew, Alasdair………
PS – I know, it’s always been an open forum here, if you’re politish. I just liked the idea of formally announcing one.
Update:
Open as in open to comments on the issue I raised at the beginning.
I know you’re angry about big Peter but go an find a place where your views are worth making.
Talking-up Scotland 'Albatraz' 
Why are we all anonymous nowadays??
Surely if the English are going to spend £15 billion of the UKs money on buying something for themselves then surely Barnet consequentials should see a pro-rata 8% or £1.2billion coming to Scotland for us to invest in our own infrastructure?
That’s how it works isn’t it?
John
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Only when they say so…
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Things like water ought to be in public ownership and so, in principle, I welcome the idea to bring Thames Water under public ownership.
However, this is a policy that has originated within the most corrupt government I have ever known and I need to see the details of what is being proposed. I suspect that it could well be ‘socialism for the rich’, in that they will be paid ‘the full going market rate’ for such an asset. But, in this context, ‘market rate’ does not mean in accordance with the balance of supply and demand, because given the condition the company is in due to lack of investment and profit taking by the rentier system, there will be no one wanting it. So, given that “the ‘market’ is a perfect information and pricing system” (Margaret Thatcher and media cronies ad nauseam during her period as PM) the price of Thames should be zero/hee-haw/nothing. So, it can come into public ownership without any payment to the owners.
People in the Thames area need water and sewerage and the infrastructure to provide these needs investment, hence the debt tab that comes with it.
Such investment, we were told at the time of privatisation, would come from the private sector, because ‘the chill winds of competition’ mean they need to have a ‘quality’ product otherwise people will go to competitors for the service. Since the water companies in England each had a monopoly in their areas, we have to ask, “What competition?” The ‘competition’ was to be provided by Ofwat, which was to monitor the provision and, by legal threats force the company to behave as if it were competing in a market. However, since there was no market, real or imagined, the owners just charged the customers more so that the level of profit was sustained and, by profit-taking instead of improving the infrastructure, the water quality deteriorated to the state it is in now.
The current owners – none of them UK based – ought to be billed for the necessary investment. This will probably mean they will just let the business go bankrupt and the Government will have to fund the required investment. The international financiers will not react well to these assets going into public control without recompense and will start ‘a run on the pound’ and thus force some compensation to be paid.
Given her ‘iron chancellor’ delusions, I suspect an incoming Labour government will comply in the way Brown and Darling gave shedloads of cash to the bankers in 2008.
As we in Scotland are still part of ‘our precious union’ we will of course have a share of the debt included in our economic data, thus giving rise to further mendacious claims that there is a ‘black hole’ in our budget. This is doubly bitter because our plentiful supply of water is publicly owned and its infrastructure has been continually invested in and, secondly, Sterling is underpinned by Scottish oil, gas and renewables, the first two having been stolen from us and the latter to be stolen by Starmer’s British Energy.
If we can gain independence and England becomes the successor state and behaves in the customarily perfidious Albion way then Scotland would start with no debt.
Alasdair Macdonald.
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It can be said that ” The current owners – none of them UK based ” but that is not really true , the people who matter are the shareholders and you can be absolutely certain that a heck of a lot of them reside in UK in fact a high number of the MPs innWestminster and Lords in the house of Lords will undoubtedly be shareholders probably substantial shareholdings too , this is why they have watched this debacle develop over many years , its not that the water companies went bust overnight theyve been creeping towards this consistently for years.England is a glutonous vampire and unfortunately Scotland is too close for comfort.Furthermore i wish Scottish people would stop saying ” yes but its nothing really to do with english people per se ” because it really is to do with english people it is they who vote in these governments year after year that introduce these stupid laws and regulations and again i have to say its not as if it just happened overnight , it too has been going on for years and years its what they want this is what english people want and when it gors wrong as it inevitably does they complain and curse but do not blame those responsible in fact they vote in the same old duds or their relatives time and time again , we need to escape , unfortunately we do not control the mind control levers such as the newspapers and the BBC and SKY so just as predictable we get the Murrell story hitting the headlines which like the Alex Salmond fiasco will tuen out to be a damp squib too.When will Scottish people learn that england is not their ally , not their friend , they will suck you dry they store their nuclear weapons next to your biggest city not theirs , they have been your enemy for a millenium all the while coming back wvery now and then with a VOW , the one in 2014 was not the first you know.
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Who on earth in Whitehall is contemplating taking on “the bulk” of any debt of a soon to be bankrupt company ? That’s not how bankruptcies work, but the Tories are so desperate to keep their utility privatisation dead duck alive, it is highly likely they’ll try pushing this through before their grand defenstration…
However, with the incoming Mafia boss as bent as the outgoing, it will probably be rebranded under the ” change ” label, essentially continuing the rip-off the electorate culture for which Britain has become renowned.
And make no mistake, Thames Water is NOT an isolated case, far from it – This was from the Guardian at the end of February this year https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2023/dec/18/how-much-of-your-water-bill-is-swallowed-up-by-company-debt-interactive#:~:text=Since%20Margaret%20Thatcher's%20government%20privatised,bn%20between%20them%20in%202023. – Do please note the difference in debt for Thames from 14.7bn at the end of February to the mid April figure of 15.6bn from the same newspaper – That’s 600k a month, little wonder the Tories are so anxious to amplify the cost of a couple of ferries to SG…
However, if you pro-rata the total debt of English Water Companies in February of 60.3bn by what happened with Thames, it becomes 64bn today…
Were they to rescript ‘One flew over the Cuckoo’s nest’ for modern times, this would have to be it, and we don’t have to pay to watch…. So far…
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If WE in Scotland are going to be landed with a share of the scandalous debt of Thames Water ( Pish ! ) when the Tory Government holds its collective nose and Nationalises it ( pass the smelling salts ! ) , then it is only fair that we in Scotland pass on the costs of our Ferries overrun to the UK Exchequer !
We could also include the ridiculous costs of Operation Branchform ( Blue Tents don’t come cheap , you know ! ).
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Perhaps if – or should that be when – Herr Gruppenführer Starmer takes over, he could organise some PFI funding to solve Thames Water’s problems, and then charge it to all the Councils Thames Water services.
That’s the Labour way isn’t it?
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